Our freedom of speech is guaranteed only as long as we don't infringe on the civil liberties of others. But does anyone know where that line is?
Sometimes, it seems that we offend people simply by stating our case, because an immediate opposite is recognized from our statement. For example, if one were to say "I love women," that doesn't insinuate any direct opposite. However, the statement "real men love women," could be offensive to gay men, without specifically addressing them.
The infamous quote; "once you go black, you never go back" also has the tendency to offend those of other races, because it implies that nothing else is as good. Without ever addressing white or Hispanic men, it's insinuated that they are not as good as black men. However, the statement "I prefer black men" makes no negative insinuation.
You see my point.
The same thing tends to happen in society and families as it pertains to religion. We often see bumper stickers that read "Real men love Jesus." This obviously creates the thought that any man that doesn't, isn't a real man. We read giant billboards that say "Don't make me come down there. - God" Other signs read "Turn or burn," and "Jesus is the reason for the season."
Has anyone stopped to think about the way Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Agnostics, or Atheists feel about those signs? One can make the case that the Christians are just stating their opinion, and that's fine. But an opposition is being created. For example, a bumper sticker that reads "God is Santa Claus for Adults" is considered obscene. But what's the difference? The aforementioned Christian bumper sticker suggests that Muslim men aren't real men because they don't "love Jesus."
My point is, I understand that many Atheists try to be funny and offensive, and for the most part, I try to stay out of that crowd. But when we simply say something about the Winter Solstice, or post a sign about how the history of Christmas came to be known as December 25th, many Christians find that knowledge offensive, and assume that we are trying to ruin their fun or be the Grinch.
But we're not! We're just stating the facts and history of the holidays.
So how is it, that Christians can present the most offensive material, and we are supposed to accept it, yet if we simply state the history of holidays and origins of religions, we are seen as vicious and untrustworthy?
Enter activism.
19 comments:
I'm little perplexed by this one (not by the clarity of your discussion but my reaction to it). I'm thankful we live in a country where we can voice our opinions as we see fit. Although you and I are polar opposites on so many issues I would not want someone to silence your opinions anymore than I want my own squelched. Having read all of your posts I've never thought of you as particularly "vicious" or even "untrustworthy." I suppose some believers, when they feel threatened, react to atheistic/ non believing material with little tolerance. At the same time, I have known humanists and other non-theists who do whatever they can to stamp out the free speech of believers. I saw a sign one time that said, "You do not have the right to never be offended". I agree. I read an article in time magazine recently where the author (a materialist as he referred to himself) said he didn't think Christians should have the right to vote. I thought "wow, I wonder what would happen if he would have said that about Jews, women, homosexuals or some other group." Was I offended? Yeah, I was. Do I think he has the right to say it. You better believe it.
I suppose we have to accept the fact that there are always going to be those who say things in an offensive way. The best we can do is choose to do otherwise. Incredibly, I think we may have actually agreed, at least to some degree, on this issue. Who would have thunk it?
Thanks Bill,
Let me tell you what inspired this blog, to shed some light on the topic.
For years, I've celebrated "Christmas" with my family, who have not been very religious, but always essentially believed in the Christian god.
Last year, my wife and I showed up to the party and handed out Winter Solstice cards to everyone, with a brief explanation of the origins of the celebration. It was in very good taste, and was only meant to educate them on why we celebrate differently, and why this time of year is important to us, as non-Christians.
The cards were published by the American Atheist Press, so naturally, on the back, their logo was displayed. Our cards were called offensive and disrespectful by my family. I was told that I only caused tension, and my wife and I were asked not to return for this year's celebration.
I in no way expected that to happen. I simply wanted my family to understand and appreciate my reasons for celebration, so that we could have a good compromise.
My mother and I have since patched things up, and in a recent email, I explained to her exactly what was on the cards. She replied with "I had no idea how important this was to you. I thought you just didn't care about this time of year at all!"
Briefly, I am still not permitted to be at my mothers for the celebration, but she is coming to my place for a non-religious celebration after Christmas.
With that said, I must wonder what caused her to shut down when I gave her that card, and consider it offensive, when all I did was tell her about who we are.
However, when I sneeze and someone says "God Bless You," I had better just say thank you. Because if I mention my Atheism, I am considered rude, and I hear "I was just trying to be nice!"
Do you see the problem, and the one-sided issues we face every day? This is why I'm an activist.
I suppose it's the assumption that everyone should just "toe the line" that frustrates me. We should all be respected as individuals, and be treated as such.
A recent survey showed that Atheists are the least trusted minority in the U.S. Why do you think that is?
David,
Merry Winter Solstice to you.
So, there is finally something we agree on. Of course, it is for different reasons since you are coming at it from a completely different direction.
It is unfortunate that many feel threatened by the rights and liberties of others. The reason for their defensiveness is fear. Fear that their pet holiday will be exposed for what it really is. I find it disheartening that so many people refuse to acknowledge the history of the holiday they are celebrating.
I celebrate Christmas socially but I refuse to take part in any aspect of the religious holiday. I believe it is my individual freedom and right to reject Christmas as the birth of Christ and, instead, I celebrate Santa, presents, cookies, lights, trees, family, chestnuts by the fire, etc.
I recognize that there is a way to be non-offensive about my attitude regarding Christmas but, at the same time, I want to be able to exercise my right to state WHY I believe Christmas (religious Christmas) is a ridiculous observance.
Pious Christians should not be looking to defend the validity of Christmas as synonymous with the validity of Christianity. Such an attempt is counterproductive, to say the least. This kind of backward thinking makes all of us, who believe in Christ, look like morons (not to be confused with "Mormons").
Instead, the true Christian apologist goes to Christ's own words to defend the faith. With this part, I know, you cannot identify - but, hey. At least we find common ground on something.
Mike
Excellent, Mike.
And Merry Christmas to you.
My family has asserted, after my evidence of the birth of Christ and the history of the holiday, that they will accept that Jesus wasn't born on December 25th.
However, they have chosen to continue celebrating December 25th as his birthday, for celebration and remembrance reasons only, since his birth date was unknown. That's where the problem lies, and I have to say, that while we agree, I must point out one inconsistency in your response.
If you reject Christmas as the birth of Christ, then why call it Christmas? That's why I call it Winter Solstice; because it's not about Christ.
Do you wrap your presents with cross or angel wrapping paper? Do you place Christmas carols such as "What Child Is This" or "Joy To The World?" My point is, we can't half-accept Christmas. We either embrace it as a religious holiday, or call it by a different name, and avoid the religious ties.
David,
Not only is it significant that Jesus was not born on December 25th, but it is additionally noteworthy that there is not even a hint in the Bible that Christians are expected to "celebrate" His birth. The typical believer is ignorant of this fact and he or she often feels some kind of fulfillment in having "honored" the baby in the manger on December 25th. There is no example, command or inference that Christ is to be honored in this fashion.
This will not make much of a difference to you, being an "unbeliever", but it may be an intriguing thought for your family to consider. Thus, their realization of this may result in a lack of conflict with you over holiday ideologies.
In response to your criticism about "half-accept(ing) Christmas":
You are right that there is an inconsistency, in that sense. However, I don't feel that the inconsistency is a big problem for me or my family in celebrating the holiday. Millions of people (especially atheists and agnostics) do the same and have no problem using the word "Christmas".
As a Christian, I see the problem come in when I begin to believe and practice man-made religious traditions, like Christmas, and worship in a method invented by pagan traditions and medieval Catholicism. On the other hand, saying "ho, ho, ho" and drinking eggnog will not offend God.
You are right, I still call it Christmas (Literally, "Christ" and "Mass") which certainly has religious overtones. Nonetheless, I only do so for the purpose of expediency and to avoid unnecessarily offending the vast majority of believers who understand the holiday to be Jesus' birthday.
Every day I drive by someone's large yard decoration with a giant Santa laying gifts at the feet of a baby Jesus. It says, "Happy Birthday Jesus". I recognize the ignorance in such a display yet I have no reason to force my ideas on them. Romans chapter 14 contains a Biblical principle about being non-offensive to others while staying true to your own conscience.
I disagree with your demand to either embrace it religiously or call it by a different name. I just don't see the big deal. I am not offended, only educated.
Mike
Mike,
Those that wish Jesus a happy birthday and put signs up that say "Jesus is the reason for the season," are just being "good Christians" in the minds of society.
But the Atheist that puts up a sign in his front yard about the history of the Winter Solstice, is hated, and thought of as being offensive and intentionally trying to start a fight. Why is that?
I've heard "Why can't you just let us have our holiday?"...and "Can we have one time a year for our Lord without you ruining it?!" Then problems come up of people not letting their kids come to my house, and my children begin to suffer.
My kids' teachers send home notes of "Merry Christmas," instead of "Happy Holidays." When someone says "Merry Christmas" to me, I respond with, "And Happy Holidays to you." Even then, I get strange looks and sometimes questions about being "Scrooge." I had better just say "you too," or "Merry Christmas."
What you're telling me is, we're living in a society where the ignorant masses set the sociological rules, and the educated people should keep their mouths shut, and just toe the line and play along in an effort to keep the peace.
That's where we differ. I want to stand for what's right, and for what actually happened. I will not conform to something that I know is false; and I don't understand those that remain silent in the presence of ignorance. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.
Mike
I am going to have to agree with you that calling Christmas, Christmas is not a big deal. I tend to be a more relaxed Atheist and understand that as long as I am not preaching one thing and practicing another, I am not a hipocrit. If I told my kids "no" don't call it Christmas, call it Winter Solstice they would be confused even with an explanation. If I told my kids not to say "Bless you" when I sneeze, they would be confused also. I choose not to say it myself, but don't take everything so to heart. I know how I feel in my heart and don't need to preach to everyone or try to talk them out of their beliefs or words they choose to use. Life is short and fixating on words is not something I do.
:)
Keep it simple,
It seems that we posted at nearly the same time, so I wanted to make sure you had a chance to read my response just above yours.
But I have to be honest with you, it's disappointing to see such an intelligent person accepting atheism, yet being okay with "speaking-Christian."
It's not about being relaxed versus uptight - it's about preparing a country where our children are educated and not judged for having facts, or forced to speak in religious terms. Christianity has been taking over our nation for years, and those of us that understand what's happening have to fight for it.
The Pledge of Allegiance wasn't written with "Under God" in it. It was added 62 years later by Christians, because Atheists didn't stop it.
Our money didn't have "In God We Trust" on it originally, but it was added in the 1950's by Christians, because the Atheists didn't stop it.
How are they accomplishing this? With protests, and speaking up for what they believe in.
Until 1920, women weren't allowed to vote. How was that changed? By speaking up and sticking together, and fighting for what was right at that time.
The same goes with all civil rights movements. We can't just stand by and watch the Christians take over our schools and holidays, and make our children feel like outsiders because they don't worship Jesus. That's exactly what happens, unless we fight for a future where secular ideals are accepted.
Honestly, you are my worst fear. The person that knows there is no god, yet still plays along with the Christians, allowing their children to say "One Nation, Under God," and never getting involved when religion controls a piece of society.
Accepting terms like "Bless you," and "Merry Christmas" is not confusing to children. I tell mine about Christmas, but I also tell them about Winter Solstice. It's almost like teaching them two languages. One religious, one secular. It's about educating them, so they don't grow up and put signs about Jesus' birthday in their front yard. They deserve to have the facts.
Moreover, a lack of education on this topic leads to words like "heathen" being used to describe a misbehaving child. Do you realize how offensive that is? A heathen is just a non-believer like you and me. But if we allow that term to be used as an insult, it creates a negative connotation with who we are as individuals. That's extremely disrespectful, and continues to fill people with the obligation to consider themselves Christian (at least in public).
I'm not saying to start fights, but it kills me inside to know that you have the knowledge that many Americans are missing, yet you refuse to join us in standing up for our rights to live in a secular society not over-ran with religious overtones.
If I know someone is Jewish, I tell them "Happy Hanukkah." If I know someone is Christian, I will wish them a "Merry Christmas." But to allow this society to automatically assume that everyone believes in the Christian god, is simply arrogance and offensive in nature.
David
I see where you are coming from...I tend to maybe word things incorrectly or you just are no match. Its like being in a ring with a professional when I am a beginner. I get it...
Your last statement about saying Merry Christmas to someone Christian and Happy Hanukkah to someone who is Jewish is really what I meant with my above statement. I just feel like in my Marriage as an Atheist and my spouse being unsure...It sometimes isn't worth the fight. So, I don't stop my toddler from saying Bless you. I guess I should and you are right.
I had this conversaton going to sleep with my spouse last night...Christmas is not the birth of Jesus, yet everyone celebrates it as just that. I am sure he laid there rolling his eyes, like here we go again...It is about love, family, good turkey, presents for the kids and tradition to me. I do not pray at the table, but I allow the other members of our family to do so, without any comments.
When you go to the Hospital and you check the religion box, I always wonder will they not help me as much since I am Atheist as they would if I was a Christian? I started checking that box along time ago and got some nasty looks from nurses...How do you get into a defense mode to defend your beliefs in a situation like that? People are just so judgmental and make it hard for me all by myself to stand up and fight. It seems like everyone is Christian around me, but none of them go to Church or practice the Bible! As an Atheist I would say I read it more than some Christians.
I understand Winter Solstice is when the earths axial is farthest from the sun around December 21st...How do you explain that as Christmas to a child versus presents and Santa? Another one...Our cat was hit by a car and we buried her. We wanted our son to be apart of it and see that she was gone and buried. His Grandmother said she went to Heaven! I just simply said it was her time and she is gone and we will not see her anymore. Is that how you would explain it? His Grandmother really thinks she went to Heaven so she feels like she is not lying.
On the Bless you...Where did that come from? I just say gazoontite and the World says bless you...How do I tell my kid to say what I say? Make it fun maybe?
David,
I really do not care what society thinks a "good Christians" is. I don't care if they choose to remain in their ignorance about the origin and meaning of Christmas. I know what Christmas means to me and that is all that matters to me.
It seems that your disgust for Christmas is just plain fruitless. What do you gain when you stand up against society and demand the secularism of everything and anything that is even hinting association with Jesus?
You want a society that is afraid of saying anything they believe in the fear of offending someone else. Maybe if you weren't so easily offended this would not be an issue for you.
I lived in a Catholic country (Philippines) for 2 years and I believe their traditions are ridiculous and contrary to true Christianity. I taught my friends and fellow Christians what the truth is about these matters but I did not run around picking fights if the Catholic majority wouldn't bow to my every whim.
Yes, the ignorant masses set the sociological rules. Show me one society in the history of mankind where this wasn't so.
If you want an answer to the question, "Why are atheists the least trusted minority?", you have found it in the aggressive and angry disposition you have.
Have you ever heard of "live and let live"?
Mike
Great questions!
I've had to address them all at one point, and I'm glad you asked.
I'll work from the bottom of your comment and head upwards...
I make sneezes fun. I started by saying "Gesund-toot" to make the kids laugh, and finally told them the word was Gesundheit. Now, that's what we say every time. It actually means "good health" in German, not "Bless You." My Christian neighbor told my kids it was a direct translation for bless you, and I had to have a conversation with him, and educate him on the history of it.
Long before any medical practice was understood, the only physical difference between a dead person and a living person, was their lack of breath. The Latin word for breath was 'spirtus.' This is where we get the term 'spirit.' So when a person died, it was said that their 'spiritus' or breath, left them. This is where the concept of a spirit or soul came from. When one sneezed, their 'spiritus' was forced out of them, and Christians said "Bless you" with hopes that the spirit would re-enter the body before the person died. This is why my family says 'gesundheit,' wishing each other good health after a sneeze. My kids have a basic understanding of this history as well.
As for celebrating the Winter Solstice, if you were at my house, you'd hardly know the difference from Christmas. Except of course, we have our celebration on the 21st, the first day of Winter. I've explained to my kids that long ago, when the winter would come, people thought the sun was burning out. So they gathered together in the darker, cold days of winter to celebrate, and bring joy during sad times.
Essentially, it's about tradition and celebrating the Winter season. Also, the Romans celebrated the birth of Mithra, the sun god, whose birthday was said to be Dec 25th.
My kids are also taught that "believers" celebrate the same things, but also the birth of Jesus, a different god from Mithra. They call it "Christmas" and those kids get presents too.
Finally, they are taught that Santa is fun, but make believe. We pretend Santa is coming, but they know it's pretend, and always have. The same goes with the Tooth Fairy. It's all a game in our house. But, they understand that some houses work differently, and not all kids know the truth. Some of them think Santa is real, and it's not our place to tell them. So, we don't talk about it with other families or kids. We let the parents have those discussions. My kids understand that and are very tolerant of religious practices.
As for the cat, I would need to have a private conversation with Grandma. I'd just tell her that you have a certain way you are raising your kids, and you don't want the concept of Heaven or Hell to be brought up just yet. Hopefully, she will respect your wishes and not talk about it around the kids.
But you have to stay prepared. My kids are exposed to Christianity on a constant basis, and come home with kids. You have to arm yourself with education and that only comes at the hand of research. We owe it to our kids to give them actual answers, and not just myths that have been passed down. We have enough resources at our fingertips now, that ignorance is no excuse. It's just about what we're willing to do for our kids.
The last thing I want to mention is your treatment at the hospital. That's EXACTLY why we need you to speak up. That's why we need you to correct people when they say a kid is being a "heathen," or treat you differently because of your beliefs. This basic understanding that Christian = good and Atheist = bad is simply wrong, and we have to prove that through our actions of being good citizens, while representing the truth and history of our evolution as a society.
Mike,
Angry disposition? What blog are you reading?
The negative association with Atheism comes from the Christians' misuse of the English language, turning words like "heathen" and "infidel" into insults. It has always been a mentality of "If you're not with us, you're against us." That's just not the case.
You completely jumped the gun there with your analogy of "bowing to every whim." I just want to go a day with being myself, and not being disrespected for not following Jesus. What's wrong with demanding equality and respect?
You have sadly mistaken my personality for one that is angry. I am just standing up for my right to live without religion. I absolutely support the the freedom of religion and I would fight for your right to continue believing if it were infringed upon.
Please don't confuse my demand to be treated fairly, with a demand to be in control. The two are not the same.
I reasearched the origin of " Bless you"...
Several possible origins are commonly given. The practice of blessing a sneeze, dating as far back as at least 77 AD, however, is far older than most specific explanations can account for.[1]
A legend holds that it was believed that the heart stops beating and the phrase "bless you" is meant to ensure the return of life or to encourage your heart to continue beating.[2][3][1]
Another version says that the custom originally began as an actual blessing. Gregory I became Pope in 590 as an outbreak of the bubonic plague was reaching Rome. In hopes of fighting off the disease, he ordered unending prayer and parades of chanters through the streets. At the time, sneezing was thought to be an early symptom of the plague. The blessing ("God bless you!") became a common effort to halt the disease.[3]
One explanation holds that people used to believe that your soul can be thrown from your body when you sneeze,[1] that sneezing otherwise opened your body to invasion by the Devil[3] or evil spirits,[2] or that sneezing was your body's effort to force out an invading evil spirit.[1] Thus, "bless you" or "God bless you" is used as a sort of shield against evil.
A variant of the Pope Gregory I story places it with Pope Gregory VII, then tells the common story of "Ring Around the Rosey" being connected to the same plague.[4]
Alternatively, it may be possible that the phrase began simply as a response for an event that was not well understood at the time.[1]
Another belief is that people used to see sneezing as a sign that God would answer your prayers[4] or an omen of good fortune or good luck.[1] In this case, "Bless you" would be in recognition of that luck.
Tibetan Buddhists believe a sneeze (like meditation, falling asleep, preparing to die) can provide a moment of "clear consciousness," when people are opened to greater understanding
I'm most proud that you researched this and found many different origins. Free thought is really what this site is promoting.
Thanks for sharing.
From what I've read about Xmas is that it started with the pagans. The catholic church couldn't get rid of the exchanging of presents to celebrate the winter soltice by pagans and decided to make their own ritual of celebrating jesus's birthday in hopes of competing and getting rid of the pagans gods in favor of their one god.
Because the answer to bad speech is more speech.
As a former nurse, I can tell you that the only reason we want to know your religion when you check into a hospital is so we can contact the correct church, or the hospital chaplain can use the correct kinds of prayers. If you're roman catholic, you might want to receive communion, or last rites. If you're christian, you might want a reverend of your denomination to come and visit with your or pray with you. Nurses and doctors and other medical professionals don't give you better or worse care based on what your religious beliefs are. That's what professional means.
Oh, and it's spelled gesundheit, it's German, and it means "health" in German. And "the world" mostly uses some variant of "health" or "good health" in the native language of the area as a response to sneezing. "God Bless" is mostly in the English-speaking world.
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