There are a millions of thoughts on religion. What's yours?
102 comments:
Anonymous
said...
What if we never question our existence? Would religion or science exist? Of course not. The origin of every belief begins when we question our existence We asked our parents, how we got here, this is the natural state of our existence, Next we asked them how they got here until we get to the origin and man. the is our spirit state. This is when our parents tell us the story of creation. The foundation of every belief the natural world. And through science we we understand the nature of everything exist.
I don't think the debate is going to have an affect on what anyone currently believes. Its not going to change any minds. But here is a worthy fight for you.
I did enjoy the debate. Well, lack there of, and honestly, by both sides. Neither of you presened any hard-core facts/evidence. But, as I told you, you did not convince me. But thanks for talking to me afterwards.
Told ya I would post a few scriptures for you.
2 Corinthians 4:4 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
If you do not have Faith in the Bible, you will not comprehend it. Make sense. Paul's testimony of this is very eye opening.
Paul also went on to say, that if we are faithless (that our faith is weakened after accepting Christ as Lord ), God is Faithful because He cannot deny Himself. After you have faith in God, you are one with Him, so just because your faith is weak, God cannot deny you because of the fact He has become One with you and He cannot deny Himself in you.
Just as I told you, you presented several, man written books, which you place your faith and trust in.....It really comes down to which book you choose to do that with.
BTW - The Ark was NOT built in 7 days as you stated in your debate....Noah was 500 yrs old and when he bagan it, he was 600 yrs old when he completed it. You know there is solid evidence of this.
The donkey issue...Hey man, there is a dog on America's Funniest Videos that can say " I love you"....
That SNAKE !! Satan had powers and spoke through the snake. And, yes snakes crawl around on their bellies as foretold right?
Oh, real funny throwing that Baptist comment out there....REALLY??? ha ha...
You said you once had faith in God, but questioned the truth of the Bible. I hope and pray one day you will surrender your will and use all that knowledge God has given you to further His kingdom and bring even more glory to Him.
I will post some facts later, but gotta get to work..
The Bible 1.The Earth was one a supercontinent. After the flood it was broken into sub Continents (Gen 1:9) 2.The earth hangs on nothing (Job 26:7) 3.The earth is round (Job 26:10) 4.The stars numbers the sands (Gen 22:17) 5.The sun and moon are use to tell the days, years, and harvest seasons (Gen 1:14) 6.All creatures came from the earth (Gen 1:24-28) 7.The earth was made out of water 2Peter 3:5) 8.Ask Creation, it wll tell you and teach you (Job 12:7-10) God gave mankind the task of understandin His creation (Ecc 3:10)
Sciencific proof 1.Geography evidence of the earth 2.The earth spins on it axle in space 3.The earth is a sphere 4. there are billions of stars in the heaven 5. days are detemined by the rotation of the earth, years by orbitings of the earth, and months by the orbiting of the moon, 6-7. Science has proven that all life comes from the earth. The also are at least 5000 products made from oil, these things did not evolved, they were made from the knowledge of creation. By wisdom and knowledge, God created the heavens and the. And by wisdom and knowledge we make things from creation, 8. Darwin studied a certian type of birds and determined that life evolved. The bibles says to asked the birds. We asked the birds through science. The Bible says a fool says in His heart there is no God, The evidence of God is creation, This is why the atheist is without excuse. For when the see creation they understand the every thing exist by design and purpose, even mankind.
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end. Ecclesiastes 3:11 (NASB)
If we cannot know our fellow finite human beings fully, how can we expect to fully know an infinite God?
Because we are incapable of fully knowing fellow humans, to some degree faith (trust) is an integral ingredient in all relationships.
Romans 1:18 God’s Wrath Against Mankind 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
John 1:12 (NIV) 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NIV) 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Peter 3:18 (NIV) 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
I will have the video of the debate posted soon; hopefully by tonight or tomorrow morning.
I think there is a breakdown of communication here with the scriptures. I don't think you realize that the problem is your foundation.
Yes, you have the scriptures to back up your claims. No one is doubting that; but the reason we are going nowhere, is because we don't understand how you can trust the Bible when it was written by men.
That's what I told you when we spoke after the debate. That's what I said in the pulpit; if you can prove to me the Bible is infallible, then I can begin trusting those words.
The very foundation of your belief is faith in the "Word," but before I have faith, I need to KNOW that the Bible IS THE WORD OF GOD. You can't point me back to the Bible to prove this, we need an external source that validates that book.
Keep in mind, that all holy books claim to be the one truth, and call all others false gods. What evidence do you have that the Bible is true, other than the Bible itself?
So, I'm challenging you now, to provide me with external proof (external to the Bible that is) that the Bible is the WORD of the God of the Bible. If you can do that, I will take the Bible seriously, and reconsider all of the scriptures you have posted.
....."is because we don't understand how you can trust the Bible when it was written by men"........
David - YOUR books are written by man, so using your own theory, those are FALLIBLE books; yet, you trust in those books.
2 Corinthians 4:4 4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
I've removed your posts. I've told you I will not tolerate plagiarism. Link to that material if you want us to read other evidence. Do not spam my blog.
The debate was interesting. I felt you did a good job, David, but never quite got the jugular like I felt you were about to do. Close, but not quite.
Michael was a powerful speaker and preacher--that's his job so what else would you expect? But his method of "proof" was laden with flaws. There were no limits or restrictions, no boundaries to use logic and reason or commonly accepted rules, definitions, etc.
2. Here is a summary of his method:
a. Accept that which you are trying to prove as a given before you start an analysis. b. Find anything that is evidence for your conclusions and accept that as proof. Take biblical support as evidence literally or interpret this "perfect" text if you can't take it literally. And, here's the killer, if you must redefine the meaning of the words, that is fine. Likewise, anything that disproves your argument is disregarded, modified, interpreted, forced to be placed within context, etc c. Use any scientific proof of your conclusions as ideal, reject all science that disproves your conclusions. d. If all else fails, invoke the supernatural.
Using such a system I can't think of anything that you can't prove.
"So, I'm challenging you now, to provide me with external proof (external to the Bible that is) that the Bible is the WORD of the God of the Bible. If you can do that, I will take the Bible seriously, and reconsider all of the scriptures you have posted."
How about a challenge for you. How about you try to find God outside of the bible. You already know that the bible is wrong. You already know there is no outside proof. You already know that no one is going to find outside proof to satisfy you. You already know the outcome of the challenge you have posed. Don't ask these people to waste their time. They believe it on Faith. They know there is no physical proof. Faith is never going to be enough for you. So how about you submit to a challenge as well.
Search for God yourself, And I dont mean just read about what others believe about a God. You must try it, feel it, not necessarily believe it, but experience different options until you find what you are looking for... and I can tell you are looking. Christians take the lazy mans answer and simply accept what they were taught, and that is fine, if it is enough for them. Its not enough for you obviously, but don't be lazy yourself and stop looking. Take a spiritual journey, not a religious one. Don't make your conclusion until you have explored every option with an open mind.
A suggestion is to try a Unitarian Universalist church. Athiests do attend. The humanist nature to them as well might appeal to you and you may find what you are looking for there. Maybe not, but it is a good starting point for the challenge for someone with your mindset.
But like I said simple reading is not enough to convince, You must try, feel, and experience to know there is something greater that just us.
So are you up for a challenge? Or are you content with what you currently beleive? I dont think you are content, or you wouldn't be fighting so hard.
Why should we believe you? Even most scientists believe in some kind of God. So why should you as an athiest be believed over the men who wrote the bible or the men who wrote any other religious text? You are all still just a fallible man.
Just because you say you are a good person who leads a productive life doesn't mean its true, right? For all we know you cheat on your wife, kick your dog and steal from the local shopping mall. Things people get away with everyday.
So why should anyone believe in what you are saying just because you say it. You are just a man. Science does not back you up, science does not know either way.
We all must consider the source of our information. You obviously have no source except for your own mind. The mind of a man who know one really knows.
So why should we believe you know what you are talking about?
I'd like to respond to a few things you said. Most specifically, this:
"Even most scientists believe in some kind of God." - I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Statistics show that 93% of the members of the National Association of Scientists are Atheists or Agnostic. You will hardly find an anthropologist or biologist that is Christian. They are out there of course, but to use the word 'most' is just intellectually dishonest.
You cannot study the fossil record of evolution and still believe the creation story that man came from dust. You can't be a serious geologist and claim that this world is an 'intelligent design.' As I stated in my debate, these people are in the trenches every day, living and breathing these artifacts and fossils; yet you trust the Christian Preachers to know more than the specialists in all these fields. I just can't make that make sense to me.
I never said you should trust me. I am a man, and I am fallible. I could be corrupt, I could be lying, I could be misinformed. I never said you should take my word for it. I'm only asking you to do your own research outside of the bible, and be objective with what you find, instead of being biased toward the answer, as the Anonymous poster above alluded to.
Again, in my debate, I said "just read ANY book on anthropology." I'm not going to limit you to ONE source of knowledge, and say that my site is the only place for answers. I'm not going to point to ANY book and say that ALL of the answers are there. Why? Because men wrote them! They could have errors. And so could the Bible.
That's why we are constantly going back and updating, and testing, and challenging older scientific statements and retesting them in light of new evidence, regardless of how much we respect them. But you're not willing to do that with the Bible. It's just true because it's true! That's not looking for answers; that's choosing ignorance and refusing to look at evidence.
My purpose is to make you think, make you challenge yourself, and make you research for yourself. My opponent wants you to take his word for it, because he read the word of "God." I don't think that's fair to your intellect. You deserve to find your own answers, and you can't find that limiting your sources to one book written thousands of years ago that we can't possibly challenge or test.
"Even most scientists believe in some kind of God." - I'm sorry, but this is just not true."
Well I guess that all depends on which study, all done by fallible humans you choose to believe doesn't it...lol. There is usually a study to prove both sides of any argument. And the results all depend on the type of questions asked.
Scientists and Belief http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474
New study reveals the percentage of scientists who believe in God is the same as 1916 count http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n22_v91/ai_19332942/
Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by Discipline http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html
Collins: Why this scientist believes in God http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
Do most astronomers believe in God based on the available scientific evidence? http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=231
Natural scientists are less likely to believe in God than are social scientists http://www.physorg.com/news5785.html
But this is my favorite...lol
Only Six Percent Of Scientists Are Republicans: Pew Poll http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/10/only-six-percent-of-scien_n_229382.html
"My purpose is to make you think, make you challenge yourself, and make you research for yourself."
Same goes for you, but "you have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page."
....."My opponent wants you to take his word for it, because he read the word of "God."... - David, I totally disagree with your preception of Michael's, and any other preacher/pastor/priest's, of teaching the Word of God. - Just as any science professor would teach, so do those that have studied the Bible, earned a degree in theology amongst many other degrees. Many pastors are very well educated. - Now my pastor can get up in the pulpit and share his words, but is ultimately up to me to search the bible and use other "tools" and books to ensure what he is teaching is correct. - We are not robots. - Denese
...."Same goes for you, but "you have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page.".. - Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound That saved a wretch like me I once was lost, but now I am found Was blind but now I see These chains are gone, I have been set free My God, My Jesus has ransomed Me... - Wisdom is vertical It comes down from Above. - Denese
I think Smalleys perception of what most christians really believe about the bible and god is not accurate. Thats why no sense is made of his arguments to christians.
It's a wonderful feeling being at PEACE with humanity, and not fearing demons or other metaphysical beings, or a torturous after-life for a mistake I wasn't aware of. It's wonderful to know I won't be bowing to something that ordered the death of homosexuals, misbehaving children, and people that worked on Sunday.
I am in control of own destiny; and it's wonderful not to rely on prayers or intervention. It feels great.
There is no need for surrender or submission. The real God requires no such thing of you. God does make sense. Its the christian God that doesn't. Its the christian God that Smalley struggles with.
Smalley simply does not want to take the time to look for God. This is an easy way to try and understand the world for him. And its ok, hes not going to hell because of this choice. But he is missing out.
"It's a wonderful feeling being at PEACE with humanity"
But humanity can and is just as evil and vile as the christian God you so despise. Peace with humanity? Are you serious? Do you really have peace? I dont know about that if you put your faith in humanity.
Your humanity could rob, rape, murder, torture and abuse you at any moment, yet you choose to see only the good...lol. ;) So much like the christians...lol.
....I do not fear. God says to let Him handle it all, so I do. What is there to fear if God says that and that He is in control?..NADA, zip, zilch. - David....Talk about all the good that the Christian God has done...... - Quote the scriptures on all the good, just as you do on the bad. - Are you willing to do that?
Man kills, rapes, murders, does drugs, steals, destroys, lies, cheats ........So you worship humanity, huh? Does not sound much different than the god you say does not exist - Jaycee Duggard's rapist is part of your humanity circle.....What exactly did you say about that at your debate?.....GOOD, you are at peace with this guy and woman who did this to Jaycee. WOW !! - Mistakes that you did not know about???? Clarify that on. You are a well educated man and you would defintely know when you made a mistake. The difference is is that I believe in PURE GRACE who died on the Cross. PURE LOVE. - Like the scriptures says, you cannot comprehend that or who you have no faith in, including your science and your humanity. - If you had faith in your own humanity, I guess you enjoyed watching Jaycee suffer for all those years and you had faith in that couple who did it to her that everything was according to humanity.
And there's the difference. Man is fallible, which opens us up to defects. What that couple did is obvious of that.
I've never claimed 'faith in humanity,' you said that. Man is imperfect because man is evolving.
Your god is supposed to be perfect. Your god is supposed to be watching. Man is expected to fail, and do good and bad things with poor, imperfect judgment and motivation.
Your god is supposed to know better, and do better. Your god did nothing. Your god let her suffer, when he was the only one that was powerful enough to stop it.
"Your god is supposed to be perfect. Your god is supposed to be watching. Man is expected to fail, and do good and bad things with poor, imperfect judgment and motivation.
Your god is supposed to know better, and do better. Your god did nothing. Your god let her suffer, when he was the only one that was powerful enough to stop it."
And this statement is exactly why you do not understand the christian faith. This is not what they believe. You are mischaracterizing the christian God. Maybe that is what you wanted God to be when you were young and were disappointed. But christians do not believe that God doesn't allow bad things to happen and saves everone from suffering. No christian believes that. Its foolish to state it when it is not a belief that they hold.
You are ASSUMING she knew God. .....Do you know for a FACT that she knew God? .....You also know that the God of the Bible cannot act on those prayers of those who do not know or believe in Him? - Not that is NOT proof. What that is is that you continue to place time demands on God. You are exalting yourself higher than God thinking you know more tham Him. - You have exalted yourself as your own god, having control of your own destiny. - That is your problem. You think God should act according to what you feel and your own opinion. - The main goal of those under the influence of the sin nature is to make himself a god, to have complete control over his life, or so he thinks ....ROMANS 8:6-7 6 The mind of sinful mane is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mindf is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. - This is why you spend most of your time complaining and arguing not about the scriptural proof texts, but the “dos and don’ts
You simply hate the idea that anything—or any One—should have control over you. What you do not realize is that Satan himself is controlling you, blinding you, and preparing your soul for hell. - Matthew 7:6 (NIV) 6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. - Proverbs 29:1 (NIV) A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy. - Denese
But christians do not believe that God doesn't allow bad things to happen and saves everone from suffering. No christian believes that. Its foolish to state it when it is not a belief that they hold...... - AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN isaiah 52 We trust when we do not comprehend. There is no way I can comprehend God fully with my finite mind.
Peace in humanity meant being at peace with my own humanity; not absolute trust in all humans. There's a difference.
I understand the Christian faith very well, and I know that Christians believe God allows evil to happen. That's why they are inconsistent in their views.
They say he is all-powerful. They say he is all-knowing. They say he is all-good. But they say he allows evil. That doesn't make sense.
I have yet to read one single good reason why the Christian god would be all of those things, yet watch Jaycee Dugard suffer and do nothing for her, when he was the only one that could.
Can someone please give me a reason? Don't copy and paste, don't blast chapters and chapters of the Bible. Those will be deleted.
I want to know what you believe your god was doing (even the non-Christian) while Jaycee was being raped and abused. Did he watch?
Tell me of the good in it. Tell me of the good in this world. - Since we say He is all-good, tell me the good. - You can atribute the He didn;t do this and He didn't do that, so tell me the good !!!
Yuo answer your own qusetion....Was He watching? - Denying Christ 100%.
Matthew 12:31 (NIV) 31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. - Denese
I will stop badgering you now. I know that you don't have answer for my question. It's uncomfortable for you to think about your leader watching that horrific crime take place for 18 years, and do nothing. That has to be difficult for you as a believer, and you must come up with something way over the top to make it make sense in defense of your religion, so I will leave you alone. I've made my point.
What should he do with me? According to the Bible, send me to Hell. That's an easy one. But I know he's not there, so that doesn't bother me one bit.
Anonymous,
I don't want "Him" out of the schools, and I don't "expect Him" to DO anything. Both statements are misrepresentations of my world views.
No religion, god, or metaphysical belief or ritual should be practice in public schools. Those schools are public and should be representative of the public, not one section of the country that claims a belief. One Nation Under God = IRAN. No thanks. We should remain a free country, not a Christian nation.
I do not expect the Christian god to show up anyway. By saying that "he watched and did nothing" I'm only proving that a "good god" and a "powerful god" can't exist if those things happen. It's just an example to prove a point, I don't actually expect any god to do anything because I don't believe any of those gods are there.
You know He is not there.....WRONG, but your own admittance and theories....You cannot PROVE He is not there.
Yes, David. He was watching, He was hearing. Do I personally comprehend why all the evil goes on, NOT AT ALL. Do I know why? NOT AT ALL. Do I like it? NOT AT ALL.
But I too know I do bad things as well. Not sure why HE allows it either. Not sure why I have sufferred as I have too. - But do I deny that He is?...No because I have faith that His ways are higher. - How are you PROVING IT? You aren't.
You are simply saying God is not existent because He did not act the way David Smalley feels he should have. - Now David Smalley is his own god.
"They say he is all-powerful. They say he is all-knowing. They say he is all-good. But they say he allows evil. That doesn't make sense."
It makes sense to me even as a non-christian. They accept the fact that they do not understand everything about their God, so they allow that he knows what he is doing. They believe evil exists on this earth but not in heaven and they will get to heaven eventually. They certainly believe that God tests you and bad things could be a part of that.
As a non christian with a completely different view of God and the subject of evil things happening. Here is my opinion.
We are a part of God, God is the greater of us all and the sum of us all, inside of us and outside of us. Good and bad. The purpose for your life in this world is to learn, and it is to learn the good and bad. You had a hand in what it is that you wanted to learn. You do have responsibility for your life and your lessons and if you learn them the first time around or if you have to keep repeating them until you do. Have you ever felt like the same rotten thing keeps happening to you, but not others? Some chose much harder lessons than others, and you landed in the world where you could learn those lessons for yourself. Suffering is part of this experience and we all, every single one of us will have to deal with it. No matter what you beleive you are not exempt from these things. Can you experience relief without knowing suffering, No. Can you experience joy with knowing sadness, No. Can you experience love without knowing hate, No. What you get from this experience is for you, and for God.
Its not about punishment or obedience or a God who wants you to worship only him. God is above that pettiness. But God is also not a singular identity watching over us either. Its about learning and being the relief, being the joy, being the love.
I believe in God, and that God has power over the physical matter of this world, but in a way that we also have the power over this world if we can learn to connect with it.
And I do want God to stay out of the schools in the sense of formal instruction. There should never be one preference over another. No formal instruction. School is not for believers it for learning basic skills. If you want others to teach your children about God send them to a private school or enroll them in religious classes. Never should it be in public schools as a lesson. And I dont have a problem with One Nation under God because the word God encompasses many things, many beliefs and I believe it is inclusive. If your child as an athiest(children dont really get a choice) does not want to say it they do not have to. God should not be completely ignored because it is part of social studies. We can't ignore a huge element to every civilization in this world. But we cannot show a preference to any in a public school.
So you've created this god in your head and we are supposed to worship it? You want to set out regulations for how we should live or what our children should say in schools based on your belief of a god that you made up with no evidence?
That's even more far-fetched than Christianity.
At least they have doctrines and gospels and books and SOME historical evidence pointing to stories that were passed down. What you've described sounds more like a Coral Reef than an omniscient being.
No I didn't create God in my head and no one told you to worship it. Worship is silly. My belief of God comes from years and years of study, study of religion, study of nature, study of science, new age studies and practice. The practice of connecting with God that everyone is capable of. God is not exclusive to christianity. You just like to pigeon hole it there because that is your current obsession.
My opinons about schools are not based on any belief in God. They are based on being a US citizen and a desire for an orderly and equal society. It comes from a belief in what this country is all about.
You want proof I am not here to prove to you that God exist, I am here to share the gospel. If you don’t believe you just don’t believe. However, suppose God did not exist and there is no heaven. We both will die with our belief. If I am faithful in my belief, caring for the natural and spiritual welfare of humanity, it benefits society. I will lose nothing. Will it be worth? Yes, it would. Just the same, you too will be dead. Since the dead knows nothing, the debate between you and me will end. But if there is an afterlife, I will go to heaven. What do you think will happen to you? Is it worth it? Since you claim that you care so much about humanity, why not let people believe that God exist, that is, if it has a positive impact on the world. If God don’t exist so what. Don’t knock people for believing. Beside can the world exist without religion? Of course not! It would be like driving without traffic laws. The reason why I believe the Bible is the word of God is that it reveals the heart of mankind. Now if you want scientific evidence examine the heart of man. The world is the reflection of man’s heart. Can mankind this problem. Mankind have a better chance of finding a cure for the AIDS virus, than solving mankind social issues. Ecclesiastes 7:29 " Mark 7:21-23 Proverbs 27:19 Proverbs 30:16)
Smalley's soul will go to "heaven" too. He has nothing to fear. You can continue the debate in the afterlife...lol. Only this time you will have a little proof and Smalley will be able to say you were still wrong.
You are not alone Even as a Christian sometimes my heart faces the same question. Nevertheless, the reason why people die and are sick is sin. I can make the same argument with evolution. If there were no God, then whom will we blame for sickness and deceases. If mankind evolved into an advance species, we should be just advance in our behavior than we are in technology. Yet our behavior is worsening. How do you explain that? Now if God were to fix the world, He would have to begin with you. But I guarantee I can prove to you rationally and scientifically that God exist. If there is a heaven, the children will be there, thanks to Jesus suffering. Just because we can’t give you answer your rather not believe in God and choose to believe in evolution, which is nothing more than a theory that don’t make sense. How can a chimpanzee have 98% of our DNA? If anything, maybe they have one or two percent of our DNA. If Chimps have 98 % of our DNA, that two percent makes a lot of difference. . Sorry, I can’t give you the answer you are looking for. But for the sake of your salvation, I wish I could. Until then we will die with our faith. If there is no heaven or hell, what will have to lose? Nothing, but is there is…
So when babies get sick and die its because they sinned? What did they do, cry too much, poop too much? Everytime you catch a cold you are being punished for your sin? Boy I must be doing something right then, not believing in the christian god because I haven't been sick or even caught a cold in the last two years. Yeah me!
"rather not believe in God and choose to believe in evolution"
God and evolution are not seperate things, its not one or the other. Denying science is denying God. If you believe that God created the world then denying what he created and the science of it is denying God. IMO
David Smalley said... Fair enough. But I would have saved her. - She escaped didn't she???.......So since she was able to escape and saved from future torture, and by your own theory, GOD EXISTS NOW, right? - She is no longer sufferring. Jaycee was set free and was saved. - Sounds likes God exist now by your own theory.
SICKNESS Isaiah 55:9 (NIV) 9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts - This does not mean sickness is always from God or that God always inflicts us with sickness to teach us a spiritual lesson. In a world tainted by sin, sickness, disease, and death will always be with us. We are fallen beings, with physical bodies prone to disease and illness
BABIES AND SICKNESS -----You have to remember, the babies and small children will be with the Lord - Age of Accountability kicks in -----But yes, all have inherited the sin nature from Adam and Eve, the second and third sinners of this world - Lucifer was first. Lucifer did not need God and tried to raise himself equal or above God. But even Lucifer believed and obeyed God ------- Romans 5:12 (NIV)
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
"This does not mean sickness is always from God or that God always inflicts us with sickness to teach us a spiritual lesson. In a world tainted by sin, sickness, disease, and death will always be with us. We are fallen beings, with physical bodies prone to disease and illness"
I get it now...how convenient for you.
So when someone, or a group of people like those in Haiti, or the 9/11 victims, or the starving and diseased in Africa get sick or killed people like Pat Robertson can say "Oh God was punishing them for their evil ways" but when you get sick you are not being punished cause you are one of the good guys...lol.
Wow, the hypocrisy is astounding.
"You have to remember, the babies and small children will be with the Lord - Age of Accountability kicks in"
So whats the point of the suffering part then? Why not have them just die instantly if they are not being punished for some kind of percieved sin. Babies and children can suffer in pain for years before they actually die, so tell me whats the point for the suffering? There must be a reason, or is it one of those that you just dont understand again?
You can't have it both ways. Either God punishes through sickness and death or he doesn't. You can't decide who is getting punished and who isn't.
So, since you assume God allows evil to exist, does He also allow good to exist? - what good do you give God the credit for? - Because you sure do credit God will all the evil and allowing the evil to exist.
God does not punish.... The fall of Adam and Eve?????? ...Throwing Lucifer to the ground???? ......God said vengence is His and he takes responsibility too
But dont forget that I know God in a completely different way than you do. God is not a single entity dictating to the world of its every whim, as if we are playthings. We are a part of God so we play a part in what is created here. Punishment is not doled out by God, but by the consequences that come about for our own actions.
Instead though you could say that I do not believe in the God of the bible. But I understand your faith makes you have to believe that the God of the bible is the one true God. Otherwise you might go to hell...lol.
In Chemistry, God turned water into Wine - In Biology, God was born without the normal conception - In physics, He disproved the law of gravity when He ascended into Heaven - In Economics, He disproved the law of diminishing returned by feeding 5000 men with two fish and 5 loaves of bread - In medicine, He cured the sick and the blind without adminstering a single dose of drugs - In history, He is the Beginning and the End - In government, He said all shall He shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of Peace In Religion, He said no one comes to the Father except through Him - Who is He?......He is Elohim, Yah.
As it turns out, all the theologians, Bible scholars, new testament authors, old testament prophets, Qur'an specialists, Islamic theologians, Hindu theologists, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Wiccans, and Christians are all wrong! That's right.
An anonymous poster on dogmadebate.com is actually the person that knows the ONE TRUE GOD, and has knowledge that apparently is not available to the rest of us. In fact, this poster is actually a part of God himself! (sounds familiar)
There are no writings of the savior, there are no descriptions of this savior, there is no evidence of this creator; so I suppose we have to take this glorious anonymous poster's word for it.
It sounds like someone is a self-professed Messiah. Oh' praise ye Anonymousness of Greatness! We bow to your anonymous blogging knowledge of the all-powerful creator. Please enlighten us and forgive us our stupidity.
Now now David....That is too funny !!! Denese - Thanks for the laugh man. - BTW - are you on bended knee bowing with your hands raised to the Great Anonymous One !! - I am laughing so hard I need...well nevermind.
It sounds like someone is a self-professed Messiah. Oh' praise ye Anonymousness of Greatness! We bow to your anonymous blogging knowledge of the all-powerful creator. Please enlighten us and forgive us our stupidity. - Sounds like the Lucifer who was thrown to the ground from the Heavenlies. Or perhaps Joseph Smith has been raised from the dead !!!
Unitarian Universalism has nothing in common with biblical Christianity. It is a false gospel, its teachings are contrary to the Bible, and its members strongly oppose traditional, biblical Christian beliefs (while purporting to be free of discrimination or prejudice of any kind). The Bible clearly refutes Unitarian Universalism on all the major points of its teachings.
Actually christians do attend Unitarian Universalist churches.
And I think the bible clearly refutes any religion that is not centered around the bible...lol
But even christians themselves do not agree on what the bible actually teaches, given the number of christian denominations all centered around the bible and all stating that they are the ones who interpret it correctly.
Who do you believe is correct? What christian church do you suppose is the right one, there are so many to choose from. They all are branches of the catholic church but which one is the correct branch?
Actually christians do attend Unitarian Universalist churches. And so do Athiests.
And the bible clearly refutes any religion that is not centered around itself.
But which christians are the right ones? Even the christians can't agree on how to interpret the bible. There are so many denominations to choose from. They are all just branches off of the catholic faith, but which one is the right branch? Some require salvation, some require good works, some require baptism to enter into heaven. How is a christian supposed to know which christians actually know what they are talking about?
There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:
•The inherent worth and dignity of every person; •Justice, equity and compassion in human relations; •Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations; •A free and responsible search for truth and meaning; •The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large; •The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all; •Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:
•Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life; •Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love; •Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life; •Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves; •Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit. •Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.
Methodological naturalism is the term used to describ science as self-imposed limitation, that it will only consider natural causes for natural phenomena. Science does not consider suprnatural explanations because it has no way of observing, measuring, repeating or testing supernatural events. It does not mean that uspernatural events, including devine miracles, have not happened, just that science CANNOT properly make any statesments about them.
pg. 12, Opening remarks, Dover PA trial - Sir Fred Hoyle ..."The only way life could have come into existence is because of some Super-Intelligence having CREATED it" - Denese
Constancy of Billions of Years or " THE FLOOD" - Uniformitarianism - "present in the key to the past' - "what we see and observe today is all there is - IMPLIED _ There is no God tha tis actively engage in the events of the univers - OR - Catashrophusm - The Flood The basic geolgy of th world was shaped by events at rates, scales and intensities far greater than observed today - Meaning: The flood and ensuring events shaped the world we know - Denese
Geology - rock stratification Fossiles tending from simple to large / more complex species - enormous variation - many extint species - Cambrian " explosion" -6 ft claims, Magalodon - Pots, bells, necklaces in coal deposits - polystrate trees - human footprints crossing dinosaur prints - Denese
Catastrophism - -Water stratifies sediment into layers -Existence of fossibles to -Closed molluks shoes catastrophism -Variation illustrates incredible design - not macro evolution -Cambrian in perfect alignment -giant variants questions "survival of fittest" -Geologic column??????? -Human existence during Carboniferous period 250 mya -Polystrate trees illustrate food - Illustration of man and dinosaur on earth - Denese
Scientist know that our atmospheric pressure is decreasing, this it would have been greater pre-flood ( easier for people and animals to breethe. answering critics that claim that dinosaurs didn't have enough lung capacity ) --->think of a hyperbaric chamber - A water layer would block out harmful rays from the sun. The sun produces: light, ultraviolet light, xrays, Gamma rays, etc ( study Dr Kei Moria at Kao University and his tomato plants ) -
Dinosaurs likely died out sometime after the flood due to a combination of dramatic environmental shifts and the fact that they were relentlessly hunted to extinction by man
In Genesis 6:19–20, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the “clean” animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark. - Denese
Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different “kinds” of dinosaurs. Furthermore, not all dinosaurs were huge like the brachiosaurus, and even those dinosaurs on the Ark were probably “teenagers” or young adults.
Creationist researches have calculated that Noah had on board with him representatives from about 8,000 animal genera (including some now-extinct animals), or around 16,000 individual animals. When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind,” Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine “kind,” so hundreds of different dogs were not needed.
According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, which is about 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.
Without getting into all the math, the 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark (even allowing them some moving-around space).
Okay, now you're just making me laugh. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be rude. But all the evidence in the scientific world points to dinosuars living about 40 million years before man.
How did Noah fit the Brontosaurs on the ark?
How did Noah stop the T-Rex from devouring the other animals on the boat? What did Noah feed these massive animals? Where did he store their food?
Come on now Denese, you have to be logical here, not just defensive.
There were giants too Genesis 6:4 " there were giants in the eart in those days"....--> Goliath -
A skeleton nince feet eight inches ) 2.95m ) tall was recvered from a stone burial mound at Brewersville, Indiana in 1879 ...Idianapolis News, 11/10/1975 quoted in the Reader's Digest's Mysteries of the Unexplained - At Walkerton, 20 miles southwest of of South Bend, IN, a group of amateur archeologists opened a mound in 1925 and unearthed the skeletons of 8 giants ranging from 8-9 feet long - all were wearing heavy copper armor - A skeleton 12 feet tall ws foundby soldiers in lompoc Rancho, CA in 1883. The remains were reburied due to objections by local indians ...The Unexplained by Dr KRl Shukar, p 151 - There is also a drawing of a 11'6 man from an Italian coal mine...Dinosaur, by Carl Baugh, (254) 897-3200 -
Joe Taylor made a replica of a thigh bone from a giant skeleton found in Egypt 806 675 777 -
"At least they have doctrines and gospels and books and SOME historical evidence pointing to stories that were passed down.". - So Mr. Smalley, does that mean you believe in SOME of the Bible?
dude, this the weirdest blog ever. Dinosaurs? Giants? Catholics were the first Christians? wtf?
actually not the weirdest stuff I've ever heard. here is some of my favorite gaffs I heard at church: -Adam's first wife was Lilith, queen of the vampires -the earth used to be in a giant ice bubble deflecting harmful rays making everyone live for hundreds of years, but it broke and flooded the Earth and that's how we got the oceans. (I guess it was salty ice?) -as a teen Jesus traveled the Earth (like William Wallace) as a tin merchant 'and that's how he knows so much' -in the end times there will be a 'space ship Jerusalem'
I've had enough, I'm ready to become an atheist now.
102 comments:
What if we never question our existence? Would religion or science exist? Of course not. The origin of every belief begins when we question our existence
We asked our parents, how we got here, this is the natural state of our existence, Next we asked them how they got here until we get to the origin and man. the is our spirit state. This is when our parents tell us the story of creation.
The foundation of every belief the natural world. And through science we we understand the nature of everything exist.
I don't think the debate is going to have an affect on what anyone currently believes. Its not going to change any minds. But here is a worthy fight for you.
Texas Conservatives Win Curriculum Change
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/education/13texas.html?hp
Is it viewable anywhere?
Let's see it! How'd that thing go? Sorry I couldn't be there.
Hey David;
I did enjoy the debate. Well, lack there of, and honestly, by both sides. Neither of you presened any hard-core facts/evidence. But, as I told you, you did not convince me. But thanks for talking to me afterwards.
Told ya I would post a few scriptures for you.
2 Corinthians 4:4
4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
If you do not have Faith in the Bible, you will not comprehend it. Make sense. Paul's testimony of this is very eye opening.
Paul also went on to say, that if we are faithless (that our faith is weakened after accepting Christ as Lord ), God is Faithful because He cannot deny Himself. After you have faith in God, you are one with Him, so just because your faith is weak, God cannot deny you because of the fact He has become One with you and He cannot deny Himself in you.
Just as I told you, you presented several, man written books, which you place your faith and trust in.....It really comes down to which book you choose to do that with.
BTW - The Ark was NOT built in 7 days as you stated in your debate....Noah was 500 yrs old and when he bagan it, he was 600 yrs old when he completed it. You know there is solid evidence of this.
The donkey issue...Hey man, there is a dog on America's Funniest Videos that can say " I love you"....
That SNAKE !!
Satan had powers and spoke through the snake. And, yes snakes crawl around on their bellies as foretold right?
Oh, real funny throwing that Baptist comment out there....REALLY??? ha ha...
You said you once had faith in God, but questioned the truth of the Bible. I hope and pray one day you will surrender your will and use all that knowledge God has given you to further His kingdom and bring even more glory to Him.
I will post some facts later, but gotta get to work..
Denese
The Bible
1.The Earth was one a supercontinent. After the flood it was broken into sub Continents (Gen 1:9)
2.The earth hangs on nothing (Job 26:7)
3.The earth is round (Job 26:10)
4.The stars numbers the sands (Gen 22:17)
5.The sun and moon are use to tell the days, years, and harvest seasons (Gen 1:14)
6.All creatures came from the earth (Gen 1:24-28)
7.The earth was made out of water 2Peter 3:5)
8.Ask Creation, it wll tell you and teach you (Job 12:7-10)
God gave mankind the task of understandin His creation (Ecc 3:10)
Sciencific proof
1.Geography evidence of the earth
2.The earth spins on it axle in space
3.The earth is a sphere
4. there are billions of stars in the heaven
5. days are detemined by the rotation of the earth, years by orbitings of the earth, and months by the orbiting of the moon,
6-7. Science has proven that all life comes from the earth. The also are at least 5000 products made from oil, these things did not evolved, they were made from the knowledge of creation. By wisdom and knowledge, God created the heavens and the. And by wisdom and knowledge we make things from creation,
8. Darwin studied a certian type of birds and determined that life evolved. The bibles says to asked the birds. We asked the birds through science.
The Bible says a fool says in His heart there is no God, The evidence of God is creation, This is why the atheist is without excuse. For when the see creation they understand the every thing exist by design and purpose, even mankind.
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end. Ecclesiastes 3:11 (NASB)
FAITH
If we cannot know our fellow finite human beings fully, how can we expect to fully know an infinite God?
Because we are incapable of fully knowing fellow humans, to some degree faith (trust) is an integral ingredient in all relationships.
Romans 1:18
God’s Wrath Against Mankind
18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
John 1:12 (NIV)
12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God
2 Corinthians 5:21 (NIV)
21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Peter 3:18 (NIV)
18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
All,
I will have the video of the debate posted soon; hopefully by tonight or tomorrow morning.
I think there is a breakdown of communication here with the scriptures. I don't think you realize that the problem is your foundation.
Yes, you have the scriptures to back up your claims. No one is doubting that; but the reason we are going nowhere, is because we don't understand how you can trust the Bible when it was written by men.
That's what I told you when we spoke after the debate. That's what I said in the pulpit; if you can prove to me the Bible is infallible, then I can begin trusting those words.
The very foundation of your belief is faith in the "Word," but before I have faith, I need to KNOW that the Bible IS THE WORD OF GOD. You can't point me back to the Bible to prove this, we need an external source that validates that book.
Keep in mind, that all holy books claim to be the one truth, and call all others false gods. What evidence do you have that the Bible is true, other than the Bible itself?
So, I'm challenging you now, to provide me with external proof (external to the Bible that is) that the Bible is the WORD of the God of the Bible. If you can do that, I will take the Bible seriously, and reconsider all of the scriptures you have posted.
....."is because we don't understand how you can trust the Bible when it was written by men"........
David - YOUR books are written by man, so using your own theory, those are FALLIBLE books; yet, you trust in those books.
2 Corinthians 4:4
4The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
D
I've removed your posts. I've told you I will not tolerate plagiarism. Link to that material if you want us to read other evidence. Do not spam my blog.
"Science books are fallible..."
Of course they are! We know that. That's why we are always testing and retesting their processes, and updating those books when we find errors.
We have thousands and thousands of different books, and thousands of scientists to test those processes and evidences.
We cannot go back and test the Bible. You're not willing to update or change the Bible.
That's the difference.
Hey David
A really great book is written by Josh McDowell, Evidence That Demands a Verdict.
Denese
David:
We cannot update or change the Bible. We are commanded not to add, change or delete. God has not inspired ANYONE to do so. There is no need.
What exactly do you have faith in, if anything at all?
The debate was interesting. I felt you did a good job, David, but never quite got the jugular like I felt you were about to do. Close, but not quite.
Michael was a powerful speaker and preacher--that's his job so what else would you expect? But his method of "proof" was laden with flaws. There were no limits or restrictions, no boundaries to use logic and reason or commonly accepted rules, definitions, etc.
2. Here is a summary of his method:
a. Accept that which you are trying to prove as a given before you start an analysis.
b. Find anything that is evidence for your conclusions and accept that as proof. Take biblical support as evidence literally or interpret this "perfect" text if you can't take it literally. And, here's the killer, if you must redefine the meaning of the words, that is fine. Likewise, anything that disproves your argument is disregarded, modified, interpreted, forced to be placed within context, etc
c. Use any scientific proof of your conclusions as ideal, reject all science that disproves your conclusions.
d. If all else fails, invoke the supernatural.
Using such a system I can't think of anything that you can't prove.
"So, I'm challenging you now, to provide me with external proof (external to the Bible that is) that the Bible is the WORD of the God of the Bible. If you can do that, I will take the Bible seriously, and reconsider all of the scriptures you have posted."
How about a challenge for you. How about you try to find God outside of the bible. You already know that the bible is wrong. You already know there is no outside proof. You already know that no one is going to find outside proof to satisfy you. You already know the outcome of the challenge you have posed. Don't ask these people to waste their time. They believe it on Faith. They know there is no physical proof. Faith is never going to be enough for you. So how about you submit to a challenge as well.
Search for God yourself, And I dont mean just read about what others believe about a God. You must try it, feel it, not necessarily believe it, but experience different options until you find what you are looking for... and I can tell you are looking. Christians take the lazy mans answer and simply accept what they were taught, and that is fine, if it is enough for them. Its not enough for you obviously, but don't be lazy yourself and stop looking. Take a spiritual journey, not a religious one. Don't make your conclusion until you have explored every option with an open mind.
A suggestion is to try a Unitarian Universalist church. Athiests do attend. The humanist nature to them as well might appeal to you and you may find what you are looking for there. Maybe not, but it is a good starting point for the challenge for someone with your mindset.
But like I said simple reading is not enough to convince, You must try, feel, and experience to know there is something greater that just us.
So are you up for a challenge? Or are you content with what you currently beleive? I dont think you are content, or you wouldn't be fighting so hard.
He does not believe in anything but his own reasoning, which si fallible in itself.
Why should we believe you? Even most scientists believe in some kind of God. So why should you as an athiest be believed over the men who wrote the bible or the men who wrote any other religious text? You are all still just a fallible man.
Just because you say you are a good person who leads a productive life doesn't mean its true, right? For all we know you cheat on your wife, kick your dog and steal from the local shopping mall. Things people get away with everyday.
So why should anyone believe in what you are saying just because you say it. You are just a man. Science does not back you up, science does not know either way.
We all must consider the source of our information. You obviously have no source except for your own mind. The mind of a man who know one really knows.
So why should we believe you know what you are talking about?
Sam
He is going to say we should not believe and keep searching as science does.
Man that is so exhausting.
Sam,
I'd like to respond to a few things you said. Most specifically, this:
"Even most scientists believe in some kind of God." - I'm sorry, but this is just not true. Statistics show that 93% of the members of the National Association of Scientists are Atheists or Agnostic. You will hardly find an anthropologist or biologist that is Christian. They are out there of course, but to use the word 'most' is just intellectually dishonest.
You cannot study the fossil record of evolution and still believe the creation story that man came from dust. You can't be a serious geologist and claim that this world is an 'intelligent design.' As I stated in my debate, these people are in the trenches every day, living and breathing these artifacts and fossils; yet you trust the Christian Preachers to know more than the specialists in all these fields. I just can't make that make sense to me.
I never said you should trust me. I am a man, and I am fallible. I could be corrupt, I could be lying, I could be misinformed. I never said you should take my word for it. I'm only asking you to do your own research outside of the bible, and be objective with what you find, instead of being biased toward the answer, as the Anonymous poster above alluded to.
Again, in my debate, I said "just read ANY book on anthropology." I'm not going to limit you to ONE source of knowledge, and say that my site is the only place for answers. I'm not going to point to ANY book and say that ALL of the answers are there. Why? Because men wrote them! They could have errors. And so could the Bible.
That's why we are constantly going back and updating, and testing, and challenging older scientific statements and retesting them in light of new evidence, regardless of how much we respect them. But you're not willing to do that with the Bible. It's just true because it's true! That's not looking for answers; that's choosing ignorance and refusing to look at evidence.
My purpose is to make you think, make you challenge yourself, and make you research for yourself. My opponent wants you to take his word for it, because he read the word of "God." I don't think that's fair to your intellect. You deserve to find your own answers, and you can't find that limiting your sources to one book written thousands of years ago that we can't possibly challenge or test.
"Even most scientists believe in some kind of God." - I'm sorry, but this is just not true."
Well I guess that all depends on which study, all done by fallible humans you choose to believe doesn't it...lol. There is usually a study to prove both sides of any argument. And the results all depend on the type of questions asked.
Scientists and Belief
http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=474
New study reveals the percentage of scientists who believe in God is the same as 1916 count
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n22_v91/ai_19332942/
Scientists' Belief in God Varies Starkly by Discipline
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/050811_scientists_god.html
Collins: Why this scientist believes in God
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.commentary/index.html
Do most astronomers believe in God based on the available scientific evidence?
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=231
Natural scientists are less likely to believe in God than are social scientists
http://www.physorg.com/news5785.html
But this is my favorite...lol
Only Six Percent Of Scientists Are Republicans: Pew Poll
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/10/only-six-percent-of-scien_n_229382.html
"My purpose is to make you think, make you challenge yourself, and make you research for yourself."
Same goes for you, but "you have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page."
....."My opponent wants you to take his word for it, because he read the word of "God."...
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David, I totally disagree with your preception of Michael's, and any other preacher/pastor/priest's, of teaching the Word of God.
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Just as any science professor would teach, so do those that have studied the Bible, earned a degree in theology amongst many other degrees. Many pastors are very well educated.
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Now my pastor can get up in the pulpit and share his words, but is ultimately up to me to search the bible and use other "tools" and books to ensure what he is teaching is correct.
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We are not robots.
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Denese
...."Same goes for you, but "you have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page."..
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Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost, but now I am found
Was blind but now I see
These chains are gone, I have been set free
My God, My Jesus has ransomed Me...
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Wisdom is vertical
It comes down from Above.
-
Denese
I think Smalleys perception of what most christians really believe about the bible and god is not accurate. Thats why no sense is made of his arguments to christians.
It is a wonderful feeling to be at PEACE in the Lord.
The ultimate fact is that David does not want to surrender, believe or submit to authority unless it is on his terms and complete makes sense to him.
How in the world can we fully understand God, when we cannot even understand ourself or other human beings.
It's a wonderful feeling being at PEACE with humanity, and not fearing demons or other metaphysical beings, or a torturous after-life for a mistake I wasn't aware of. It's wonderful to know I won't be bowing to something that ordered the death of homosexuals, misbehaving children, and people that worked on Sunday.
I am in control of own destiny; and it's wonderful not to rely on prayers or intervention. It feels great.
There is no need for surrender or submission. The real God requires no such thing of you. God does make sense. Its the christian God that doesn't. Its the christian God that Smalley struggles with.
Smalley simply does not want to take the time to look for God. This is an easy way to try and understand the world for him. And its ok, hes not going to hell because of this choice. But he is missing out.
"It's a wonderful feeling being at PEACE with humanity"
But humanity can and is just as evil and vile as the christian God you so despise. Peace with humanity? Are you serious? Do you really have peace? I dont know about that if you put your faith in humanity.
Your humanity could rob, rape, murder, torture and abuse you at any moment, yet you choose to see only the good...lol. ;) So much like the christians...lol.
Now now David....
....I do not fear. God says to let Him handle it all, so I do. What is there to fear if God says that and that He is in control?..NADA, zip, zilch.
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David....Talk about all the good that the Christian God has done......
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Quote the scriptures on all the good, just as you do on the bad.
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Are you willing to do that?
Maybe we really were made from the image of God? We are so much alike...lol.
Mostly good but capable of horrific crimes. Hmmmm...
David:
Denese here again !!
Man kills, rapes, murders, does drugs, steals, destroys, lies, cheats
........So you worship humanity, huh?
Does not sound much different than the god you say does not exist
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Jaycee Duggard's rapist is part of your humanity circle.....What exactly did you say about that at your debate?.....GOOD, you are at peace with this guy and woman who did this to Jaycee. WOW !!
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Mistakes that you did not know about????
Clarify that on.
You are a well educated man and you would defintely know when you made a mistake.
The difference is is that I believe in PURE GRACE who died on the Cross. PURE LOVE.
-
Like the scriptures says, you cannot comprehend that or who you have no faith in, including your science and your humanity.
-
If you had faith in your own humanity, I guess you enjoyed watching Jaycee suffer for all those years and you had faith in that couple who did it to her that everything was according to humanity.
And there's the difference. Man is fallible, which opens us up to defects. What that couple did is obvious of that.
I've never claimed 'faith in humanity,' you said that. Man is imperfect because man is evolving.
Your god is supposed to be perfect. Your god is supposed to be watching. Man is expected to fail, and do good and bad things with poor, imperfect judgment and motivation.
Your god is supposed to know better, and do better. Your god did nothing. Your god let her suffer, when he was the only one that was powerful enough to stop it.
That's proof that your god isn't there.
You said "peace" in humanity. Is that really true, given all the atrocities humanity is capable of? Do you really find peace in it? Like you said?
"Your god is supposed to be perfect. Your god is supposed to be watching. Man is expected to fail, and do good and bad things with poor, imperfect judgment and motivation.
Your god is supposed to know better, and do better. Your god did nothing. Your god let her suffer, when he was the only one that was powerful enough to stop it."
And this statement is exactly why you do not understand the christian faith. This is not what they believe. You are mischaracterizing the christian God. Maybe that is what you wanted God to be when you were young and were disappointed. But christians do not believe that God doesn't allow bad things to happen and saves everone from suffering. No christian believes that. Its foolish to state it when it is not a belief that they hold.
David:
You are ASSUMING she knew God.
.....Do you know for a FACT that she knew God?
.....You also know that the God of the Bible cannot act on those prayers of those who do not know or believe in Him?
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Not that is NOT proof. What that is is that you continue to place time demands on God. You are exalting yourself higher than God thinking you know more tham Him.
-
You have exalted yourself as your own god, having control of your own destiny.
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That is your problem. You think God should act according to what you feel and your own opinion.
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The main goal of those under the influence of the sin nature is to make himself a god, to have complete control over his life, or so he thinks
....ROMANS 8:6-7
6 The mind of sinful mane is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mindf is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
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This is why you spend most of your time complaining and arguing not about the scriptural proof texts, but the “dos and don’ts
You simply hate the idea that anything—or any One—should have control over you. What you do not realize is that Satan himself is controlling you, blinding you, and preparing your soul for hell.
-
Matthew 7:6 (NIV)
6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
-
Proverbs 29:1 (NIV)
A man who remains stiff-necked after many rebukes
will suddenly be destroyed—without remedy.
-
Denese
But christians do not believe that God doesn't allow bad things to happen and saves everone from suffering. No christian believes that. Its foolish to state it when it is not a belief that they hold......
-
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN
isaiah 52
We trust when we do not comprehend. There is no way I can comprehend God fully with my finite mind.
Peace in humanity meant being at peace with my own humanity; not absolute trust in all humans. There's a difference.
I understand the Christian faith very well, and I know that Christians believe God allows evil to happen. That's why they are inconsistent in their views.
They say he is all-powerful. They say he is all-knowing. They say he is all-good. But they say he allows evil. That doesn't make sense.
I have yet to read one single good reason why the Christian god would be all of those things, yet watch Jaycee Dugard suffer and do nothing for her, when he was the only one that could.
Can someone please give me a reason? Don't copy and paste, don't blast chapters and chapters of the Bible. Those will be deleted.
I want to know what you believe your god was doing (even the non-Christian) while Jaycee was being raped and abused. Did he watch?
What was he doing?
David:
Again, you say you know the Bible.
Tell me of the good in it.
Tell me of the good in this world.
-
Since we say He is all-good, tell me the good.
-
You can atribute the He didn;t do this and He didn't do that, so tell me the good !!!
David:
He is watching you right now deny Him.
That is bad. That is the ultimate evil.
So using your same theory that an all knowing God, all powerful God should act upon evil and stop it, here is the ultimate question:
WHAT SHOULD HE DO WITH YOU?
Denese
Two things:
1) You didn't answer my question. What was he doing while she was being raped and abused? Was he watching?
2) Do you believe it's worse for me to deny the Christian god's existence, or what that couple did to Jaycee Dugard for 18 years?
Yuo answer your own qusetion....Was He watching?
-
Denying Christ 100%.
Matthew 12:31 (NIV)
31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven.
-
Denese
Mr. Smalley:
You want our Christian God out of schools, but expect Him to show up else.
Denese,
I will stop badgering you now. I know that you don't have answer for my question. It's uncomfortable for you to think about your leader watching that horrific crime take place for 18 years, and do nothing. That has to be difficult for you as a believer, and you must come up with something way over the top to make it make sense in defense of your religion, so I will leave you alone. I've made my point.
What should he do with me? According to the Bible, send me to Hell. That's an easy one. But I know he's not there, so that doesn't bother me one bit.
Anonymous,
I don't want "Him" out of the schools, and I don't "expect Him" to DO anything. Both statements are misrepresentations of my world views.
No religion, god, or metaphysical belief or ritual should be practice in public schools. Those schools are public and should be representative of the public, not one section of the country that claims a belief. One Nation Under God = IRAN. No thanks. We should remain a free country, not a Christian nation.
I do not expect the Christian god to show up anyway. By saying that "he watched and did nothing" I'm only proving that a "good god" and a "powerful god" can't exist if those things happen. It's just an example to prove a point, I don't actually expect any god to do anything because I don't believe any of those gods are there.
You know He is not there.....WRONG, but your own admittance and theories....You cannot PROVE He is not there.
Yes, David. He was watching, He was hearing. Do I personally comprehend why all the evil goes on, NOT AT ALL. Do I know why? NOT AT ALL. Do I like it? NOT AT ALL.
But I too know I do bad things as well. Not sure why HE allows it either. Not sure why I have sufferred as I have too.
-
But do I deny that He is?...No because I have faith that His ways are higher.
-
How are you PROVING IT? You aren't.
You are simply saying God is not existent because He did not act the way David Smalley feels he should have.
-
Now David Smalley is his own god.
Fair enough. But I would have saved her.
"They say he is all-powerful. They say he is all-knowing. They say he is all-good. But they say he allows evil. That doesn't make sense."
It makes sense to me even as a non-christian. They accept the fact that they do not understand everything about their God, so they allow that he knows what he is doing. They believe evil exists on this earth but not in heaven and they will get to heaven eventually. They certainly believe that God tests you and bad things could be a part of that.
As a non christian with a completely different view of God and the subject of evil things happening. Here is my opinion.
We are a part of God, God is the greater of us all and the sum of us all, inside of us and outside of us. Good and bad. The purpose for your life in this world is to learn, and it is to learn the good and bad. You had a hand in what it is that you wanted to learn. You do have responsibility for your life and your lessons and if you learn them the first time around or if you have to keep repeating them until you do. Have you ever felt like the same rotten thing keeps happening to you, but not others? Some chose much harder lessons than others, and you landed in the world where you could learn those lessons for yourself. Suffering is part of this experience and we all, every single one of us will have to deal with it. No matter what you beleive you are not exempt from these things. Can you experience relief without knowing suffering, No. Can you experience joy with knowing sadness, No. Can you experience love without knowing hate, No. What you get from this experience is for you, and for God.
Its not about punishment or obedience or a God who wants you to worship only him. God is above that pettiness. But God is also not a singular identity watching over us either. Its about learning and being the relief, being the joy, being the love.
I believe in God, and that God has power over the physical matter of this world, but in a way that we also have the power over this world if we can learn to connect with it.
And I do want God to stay out of the schools in the sense of formal instruction. There should never be one preference over another. No formal instruction. School is not for believers it for learning basic skills. If you want others to teach your children about God send them to a private school or enroll them in religious classes. Never should it be in public schools as a lesson. And I dont have a problem with One Nation under God because the word God encompasses many things, many beliefs and I believe it is inclusive. If your child as an athiest(children dont really get a choice) does not want to say it they do not have to. God should not be completely ignored because it is part of social studies. We can't ignore a huge element to every civilization in this world. But we cannot show a preference to any in a public school.
If this was heaven there would be no need to save her. It wouldnt have happened in the first place.
But this is earth, and evil exists here.
So you've created this god in your head and we are supposed to worship it? You want to set out regulations for how we should live or what our children should say in schools based on your belief of a god that you made up with no evidence?
That's even more far-fetched than Christianity.
At least they have doctrines and gospels and books and SOME historical evidence pointing to stories that were passed down. What you've described sounds more like a Coral Reef than an omniscient being.
No I didn't create God in my head and no one told you to worship it. Worship is silly. My belief of God comes from years and years of study, study of religion, study of nature, study of science, new age studies and practice. The practice of connecting with God that everyone is capable of. God is not exclusive to christianity. You just like to pigeon hole it there because that is your current obsession.
My opinons about schools are not based on any belief in God. They are based on being a US citizen and a desire for an orderly and equal society. It comes from a belief in what this country is all about.
You want proof
I am not here to prove to you that God exist, I am here to share the gospel. If you don’t believe you just don’t believe. However, suppose God did not exist and there is no heaven. We both will die with our belief. If I am faithful in my belief, caring for the natural and spiritual welfare of humanity, it benefits society. I will lose nothing. Will it be worth? Yes, it would. Just the same, you too will be dead. Since the dead knows nothing, the debate between you and me will end. But if there is an afterlife, I will go to heaven. What do you think will happen to you? Is it worth it?
Since you claim that you care so much about humanity, why not let people believe that God exist, that is, if it has a positive impact on the world. If God don’t exist so what. Don’t knock people for believing. Beside can the world exist without religion? Of course not! It would be like driving without traffic laws.
The reason why I believe the Bible is the word of God is that it reveals the heart of mankind. Now if you want scientific evidence examine the heart of man. The world is the reflection of man’s heart. Can mankind this problem. Mankind have a better chance of finding a cure for the AIDS virus, than solving mankind social issues.
Ecclesiastes 7:29 "
Mark 7:21-23
Proverbs 27:19 Proverbs 30:16)
Smalley's soul will go to "heaven" too. He has nothing to fear. You can continue the debate in the afterlife...lol. Only this time you will have a little proof and Smalley will be able to say you were still wrong.
You are not alone
Even as a Christian sometimes my heart faces the same question. Nevertheless, the reason why people die and are sick is sin. I can make the same argument with evolution. If there were no God, then whom will we blame for sickness and deceases. If mankind evolved into an advance species, we should be just advance in our behavior than we are in technology. Yet our behavior is worsening. How do you explain that?
Now if God were to fix the world, He would have to begin with you. But I guarantee I can prove to you rationally and scientifically that God exist. If there is a heaven, the children will be there, thanks to Jesus suffering. Just because we can’t give you answer your rather not believe in God and choose to believe in evolution, which is nothing more than a theory that don’t make sense. How can a chimpanzee have 98% of our DNA? If anything, maybe they have one or two percent of our DNA. If Chimps have 98 % of our DNA, that two percent makes a lot of difference. .
Sorry, I can’t give you the answer you are looking for. But for the sake of your salvation, I wish I could. Until then we will die with our faith. If there is no heaven or hell, what will have to lose? Nothing, but is there is…
"the reason why people die and are sick is sin."
So when babies get sick and die its because they sinned? What did they do, cry too much, poop too much? Everytime you catch a cold you are being punished for your sin? Boy I must be doing something right then, not believing in the christian god because I haven't been sick or even caught a cold in the last two years. Yeah me!
"rather not believe in God and choose to believe in evolution"
God and evolution are not seperate things, its not one or the other. Denying science is denying God. If you believe that God created the world then denying what he created and the science of it is denying God. IMO
David Smalley said...
Fair enough. But I would have saved her.
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She escaped didn't she???.......So since she was able to escape and saved from future torture, and by your own theory, GOD EXISTS NOW, right?
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She is no longer sufferring. Jaycee was set free and was saved.
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Sounds likes God exist now by your own theory.
SICKNESS
Isaiah 55:9 (NIV)
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts
-
This does not mean sickness is always from God or that God always inflicts us with sickness to teach us a spiritual lesson. In a world tainted by sin, sickness, disease, and death will always be with us. We are fallen beings, with physical bodies prone to disease and illness
BABIES AND SICKNESS
-----You have to remember, the babies and small children will be with the Lord - Age of Accountability kicks in
-----But yes, all have inherited the sin nature from Adam and Eve, the second and third sinners of this world - Lucifer was first. Lucifer did not need God and tried to raise himself equal or above God. But even Lucifer believed and obeyed God
-------
Romans 5:12 (NIV)
12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
I guess you could say babies die because science cannot save them.
Ecclesiastes 7:29 "
Mark 7:21-23
Proverbs 27:19
Proverbs 30:16
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THESE ARE GREAT
....Thanks for sharing
"This does not mean sickness is always from God or that God always inflicts us with sickness to teach us a spiritual lesson. In a world tainted by sin, sickness, disease, and death will always be with us. We are fallen beings, with physical bodies prone to disease and illness"
I get it now...how convenient for you.
So when someone, or a group of people like those in Haiti, or the 9/11 victims, or the starving and diseased in Africa get sick or killed people like Pat Robertson can say "Oh God was punishing them for their evil ways" but when you get sick you are not being punished cause you are one of the good guys...lol.
Wow, the hypocrisy is astounding.
"You have to remember, the babies and small children will be with the Lord - Age of Accountability kicks in"
So whats the point of the suffering part then? Why not have them just die instantly if they are not being punished for some kind of percieved sin. Babies and children can suffer in pain for years before they actually die, so tell me whats the point for the suffering? There must be a reason, or is it one of those that you just dont understand again?
You can't have it both ways. Either God punishes through sickness and death or he doesn't. You can't decide who is getting punished and who isn't.
You can't decide who is getting punished and who isn't.
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NOR CAN YOU OH WISE ONE !!!!
"I guess you could say babies die because science cannot save them."
Except the ones that die because their mothers dumped them in a garbage can, or shook them to death.
I bet science could have save those babies if given the chance. God was the only one around for the baby starving to death in the trash can.
Why doessn;t your science do something about all the evil and killings....Surely technology can stop all of it.
So, since you assume God allows evil to exist, does He also allow good to exist?
-
what good do you give God the credit for?
-
Because you sure do credit God will all the evil and allowing the evil to exist.
"NOR CAN YOU OH WISE ONE !!!!"
I am not the one who claims that God punishes people, especially through disease, suffering and death. God does not punish.
And thanks for describing me as wise, I like that.
Could have, should have...Might, probably....
WHATEVER....cop out.
God does not punish....
The fall of Adam and Eve??????
...Throwing Lucifer to the ground????
......God said vengence is His and he takes responsibility too
I give God credit for it all the good and bad.
But dont forget that I know God in a completely different way than you do. God is not a single entity dictating to the world of its every whim, as if we are playthings. We are a part of God so we play a part in what is created here. Punishment is not doled out by God, but by the consequences that come about for our own actions.
"The fall of Adam and Eve??????
...Throwing Lucifer to the ground????
......God said vengence is His and he takes responsibility too"
If you believe those things really happened in the way they were told, then your position is understood.
I don't believe those things happened in the way they were told so therefore I cannot accept them as evidence of any kind of truth.
Then you do not believe in the One, True God.
I could say the same of you...lol.
Instead though you could say that I do not believe in the God of the bible. But I understand your faith makes you have to believe that the God of the bible is the one true God. Otherwise you might go to hell...lol.
In Chemistry, God turned water into Wine
-
In Biology, God was born without the normal conception
-
In physics, He disproved the law of gravity when He ascended into Heaven
-
In Economics, He disproved the law of diminishing returned by feeding 5000 men with two fish and 5 loaves of bread
-
In medicine, He cured the sick and the blind without adminstering a single dose of drugs
-
In history, He is the Beginning and the End
-
In government, He said all shall He shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, Prince of Peace
In Religion, He said no one comes to the Father except through Him
-
Who is He?......He is Elohim, Yah.
ATTENTION ALL THEISTS:
An important discovery has been made.
As it turns out, all the theologians, Bible scholars, new testament authors, old testament prophets, Qur'an specialists, Islamic theologians, Hindu theologists, Atheists, Agnostics, Buddhists, Wiccans, and Christians are all wrong! That's right.
An anonymous poster on dogmadebate.com is actually the person that knows the ONE TRUE GOD, and has knowledge that apparently is not available to the rest of us. In fact, this poster is actually a part of God himself! (sounds familiar)
There are no writings of the savior, there are no descriptions of this savior, there is no evidence of this creator; so I suppose we have to take this glorious anonymous poster's word for it.
It sounds like someone is a self-professed Messiah. Oh' praise ye Anonymousness of Greatness! We bow to your anonymous blogging knowledge of the all-powerful creator. Please enlighten us and forgive us our stupidity.
Now now David....That is too funny !!! Denese
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Thanks for the laugh man.
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BTW - are you on bended knee bowing with your hands raised to the Great Anonymous One !!
-
I am laughing so hard I need...well nevermind.
It sounds like someone is a self-professed Messiah. Oh' praise ye Anonymousness of Greatness! We bow to your anonymous blogging knowledge of the all-powerful creator. Please enlighten us and forgive us our stupidity.
-
Sounds like the Lucifer who was thrown to the ground from the Heavenlies. Or perhaps Joseph Smith has been raised from the dead !!!
Unitarian Universalism has nothing in common with biblical Christianity. It is a false gospel, its teachings are contrary to the Bible, and its members strongly oppose traditional, biblical Christian beliefs (while purporting to be free of discrimination or prejudice of any kind). The Bible clearly refutes Unitarian Universalism on all the major points of its teachings.
Actually christians do attend Unitarian Universalist churches.
And I think the bible clearly refutes any religion that is not centered around the bible...lol
But even christians themselves do not agree on what the bible actually teaches, given the number of christian denominations all centered around the bible and all stating that they are the ones who interpret it correctly.
Who do you believe is correct? What christian church do you suppose is the right one, there are so many to choose from. They all are branches of the catholic church but which one is the correct branch?
And Smalley... You are forgiven...lol.
Actually christians do attend Unitarian Universalist churches. And so do Athiests.
And the bible clearly refutes any religion that is not centered around itself.
But which christians are the right ones?
Even the christians can't agree on how to interpret the bible. There are so many denominations to choose from. They are all just branches off of the catholic faith, but which one is the right branch? Some require salvation, some require good works, some require baptism to enter into heaven. How is a christian supposed to know which christians actually know what they are talking about?
And Samlley... You are forgiven...lol.
There are seven principles which Unitarian Universalist congregations affirm and promote:
•The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
•Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
•Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
•A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
•The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
•The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
•Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.
I can see why the bible refutes that...lol
Any church or religion that defies grace is a cult
Unitarian Universalism (UU) draws from many sources:
•Direct experience of that transcending mystery and wonder, affirmed in all cultures, which moves us to a renewal of the spirit and an openness to the forces which create and uphold life;
•Words and deeds of prophetic women and men which challenge us to confront powers and structures of evil with justice, compassion, and the transforming power of love;
•Wisdom from the world's religions which inspires us in our ethical and spiritual life;
•Jewish and Christian teachings which call us to respond to God's love by loving our neighbors as ourselves;
•Humanist teachings which counsel us to heed the guidance of reason and the results of science, and warn us against idolatries of the mind and spirit.
•Spiritual teachings of earth-centered traditions which celebrate the sacred circle of life and instruct us to live in harmony with the rhythms of nature.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....
Methodological naturalism is the term used to describ science as self-imposed limitation, that it will only consider natural causes for natural phenomena. Science does not consider suprnatural explanations because it has no way of observing, measuring, repeating or testing supernatural events. It does not mean that uspernatural events, including devine miracles, have not happened, just that science CANNOT properly make any statesments about them.
pg. 12, Opening remarks, Dover PA trial
-
Sir Fred Hoyle
..."The only way life could have come into existence is because of some Super-Intelligence having CREATED it"
-
Denese
Constancy of Billions of Years or " THE FLOOD"
-
Uniformitarianism
- "present in the key to the past'
- "what we see and observe today is all there is
- IMPLIED _ There is no God tha tis actively engage in the events of the univers
-
OR
-
Catashrophusm - The Flood
The basic geolgy of th world was shaped by events at rates, scales and intensities far greater than observed today
- Meaning: The flood and ensuring events shaped the world we know
-
Denese
Geology
- rock stratification
Fossiles tending from simple to large / more complex species
- enormous variation
- many extint species
- Cambrian " explosion"
-6 ft claims, Magalodon
- Pots, bells, necklaces in coal deposits
- polystrate trees
- human footprints crossing dinosaur prints
-
Denese
Catastrophism
-
-Water stratifies sediment into layers
-Existence of fossibles to
-Closed molluks shoes catastrophism
-Variation illustrates incredible design - not macro evolution
-Cambrian in perfect alignment
-giant variants questions "survival of fittest"
-Geologic column???????
-Human existence during Carboniferous period 250 mya
-Polystrate trees illustrate food
- Illustration of man and dinosaur on earth
-
Denese
Catastrophism
--oops typo on prior post
Existence of fossils shows catastrophis
-
Denese
Were dinosaurs on the Ark?
Scientist know that our atmospheric pressure is decreasing, this it would have been greater pre-flood
( easier for people and animals to breethe. answering critics that claim that dinosaurs didn't have enough lung capacity )
--->think of a hyperbaric chamber
-
A water layer would block out harmful rays from the sun. The sun produces: light, ultraviolet light, xrays, Gamma rays, etc
( study Dr Kei Moria at Kao University and his tomato plants )
-
Dinosaurs likely died out sometime after the flood due to a combination of dramatic environmental shifts and the fact that they were relentlessly hunted to extinction by man
Denese
In Genesis 6:19–20, the Bible says that two of every sort of land vertebrate (seven of the “clean” animals) were brought by God to the Ark. Therefore, dinosaurs (land vertebrates) were represented on the Ark.
-
Denese
Although there are about 668 names of dinosaurs, there are perhaps only 55 different “kinds” of dinosaurs. Furthermore, not all dinosaurs were huge like the brachiosaurus, and even those dinosaurs on the Ark were probably “teenagers” or young adults.
Creationist researches have calculated that Noah had on board with him representatives from about 8,000 animal genera (including some now-extinct animals), or around 16,000 individual animals. When you realize that horses, zebras, and donkeys are probably descended from the horse-like “kind,” Noah did not have to carry two sets of each such animal. Also, dogs, wolves, and coyotes are probably from a single canine “kind,” so hundreds of different dogs were not needed.
According to Genesis 6:15, the Ark measured 300 x 50 x 30 cubits, which is about 460 x 75 x 44 feet, with a volume of about 1.52 million cubic feet. Researchers have shown that this is the equivalent volume of 522 standard railroad stock cars (US), each of which can hold 240 sheep. By the way, only 11% of all land animals are larger than a sheep.
Without getting into all the math, the 16,000-plus animals would have occupied much less than half the space in the Ark (even allowing them some moving-around space).
"Dinosaurs were hunted to extinction by man!?"
"Dinosaurs were on the ark!?"
Okay, now you're just making me laugh. I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be rude. But all the evidence in the scientific world points to dinosuars living about 40 million years before man.
How did Noah fit the Brontosaurs on the ark?
How did Noah stop the T-Rex from devouring the other animals on the boat? What did Noah feed these massive animals? Where did he store their food?
Come on now Denese, you have to be logical here, not just defensive.
There were giants too
Genesis 6:4 " there were giants in the eart in those days"....--> Goliath
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A skeleton nince feet eight inches ) 2.95m ) tall was recvered from a stone burial mound at Brewersville, Indiana in 1879
...Idianapolis News, 11/10/1975 quoted in the Reader's Digest's Mysteries of the Unexplained
-
At Walkerton, 20 miles southwest of of South Bend, IN, a group of amateur archeologists opened a mound in 1925 and unearthed the skeletons of 8 giants ranging from 8-9 feet long - all were wearing heavy copper armor
-
A skeleton 12 feet tall ws foundby soldiers in lompoc Rancho, CA in 1883. The remains were reburied due to objections by local indians
...The Unexplained by Dr KRl Shukar, p 151
-
There is also a drawing of a 11'6 man from an Italian coal mine...Dinosaur, by Carl Baugh, (254) 897-3200
-
Joe Taylor made a replica of a thigh bone from a giant skeleton found in Egypt
806 675 777
-
Denese
"...living about 40 million years before man".
-
scientifically impossible....
If you know that Trex was on the ark, why do you ask?
And how do you KNOW TRex was there? what evidence do you have that TREX was there, David?
-
Denese
Not defensive at all....You are assuming again.
-
I am actually having a good time.
Debese
I don't believe T-rex was on the Ark at all.
"At least they have doctrines and gospels and books and SOME historical evidence pointing to stories that were passed down.".
-
So Mr. Smalley, does that mean you believe in SOME of the Bible?
Of course. It's not a complete fabrication. It just lacks the empricial evidence to be treated as the word of a god.
But according to many scholars, theologians and scientiest, there is a ton of emperical evidence in the bible.
You just CHOOSE not to believe and place your faith in science.
dude, this the weirdest blog ever.
Dinosaurs? Giants? Catholics were the first Christians?
wtf?
actually not the weirdest stuff I've ever heard.
here is some of my favorite gaffs I heard at church:
-Adam's first wife was Lilith, queen of the vampires
-the earth used to be in a giant ice bubble deflecting harmful rays making everyone live for hundreds of years, but it broke and flooded the Earth and that's how we got the oceans. (I guess it was salty ice?)
-as a teen Jesus traveled the Earth (like William Wallace) as a tin merchant 'and that's how he knows so much'
-in the end times there will be a 'space ship Jerusalem'
I've had enough, I'm ready to become an atheist now.
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