In your complaint of the earth only being 20% habitable so therefore imperfect I ask... Is there not enough room for you?
And its interesting that you believe that everything began from a singularity instead of either stating you dont know, or that it always was. The fact that it had a beginning at all is not provable by either side.
And it seems also that you believe that if there was a God then we should have heaven on earth. No bad thing should exist here if there was a God. But this is not heaven, its earth, therefore bad things exist and bad things happen and one must endure while here, but there is the promise of heaven for those who believe, a relief from this world, the suffering is temporary.
My favorite answer by Michael was when he stated that God wants you to feed the children.
And my favorite item from you was Camera Operator Unknown Drunk
But in all seriousness, I think you did a good job. I'm quite sure no one had a light bulb moment in the audience but nonetheless, it was entertaining.
Michael kind of lost me where he said with faith you can completely accept a talking donkey, nothing wrong with that... Any further argument after that is futile...
Of course no god intervened. A female police officer that noticed suspicious behavior is what finally rescued the girls.
They had no medical care, had never been to school, and no interraction from the outside world.
To imagine that any god watched her suffer; being raped and abused, and held captive from the innocent age of 11, and finally 'decided' to save her at age 29 is dispicable, immoral, and grotesque.
As for me being tasked with feeding all the starving children in the world--again, that's pretty sadistic to make them starve and suffer to see if I "pass a test."
I wish you would think about these things from an objective standpoint instead of just letting a "one-line zinger" impress you.
It's not about my thoughts or expectations. It's about the description in the Bible of the god depicted as being "All-good," and "All-powerful," and "Omnipresent."
That is inconsistent with what happened to Jaycee Dugard.
"And where did she get her sense of urgency? Years of training." = As I said before, the other officers failed, even with their years of training. - What is it exactly that YOU expect from God?
God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin.
This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right.
Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.
Another choice would have God compensating for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100% of the time. For instance, if a drunk driver causes an automobile accident, God would have to keep him and the people in the other automobile from getting harmed, for there would be many people who could possibly be caused to suffer from the accident or the death / injury of those involved in the accident.
God would have to keep the drunk driver from crashing into power lines, buildings, etc. because these things would cause innocent people to suffer.
I don't expect anything from any god, because they do not exist. Again, I am only making the point that the biblical description of what "God" is, is inconsistent with what happens in reality.
As I stated in the debate, my children have free will, until they use that will to infringe upon the other child. Then, I intervene to stop violance or abuse. Your god is supposed to be all-good and all-powerful, yet abuse happens every day without his intervention. Therefore, he must not exist.
It is the contradiction of existence I am pointing out--not an actual expectation of any god doing anything.
Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all.
We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.
2 Peter 3:9 (NIV) 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance - There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to judge them
When He created the Old Testament Laws, He established laws that discourage and punish evil. He judged nations and kings who disregard justice and pursue evil.
Likewise in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13).
He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially on the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42), which says 36 He took a little child and had him stand among them. Taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”
Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Causing to Sin
42 “And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck
I'm sure that explanation makes Jaycee Dugard completely understand the "delay."
You're just making excuses for the absence of your creator and savior. I have a hard time believing that you actually buy all of these excuses. You have to be doubting some of this nonsense.
With all do respect, we live in a real world, where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us.
God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29).
What really happens is that we choose our own way and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit. So He is able to do for those who will turn from evil and call on Jesus to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17).
God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil.
Rather than blaming God and questioning God for why He does not prevent all evil - we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences - Jesus Christ!
Again, there is an inconsistancy in your argument. You trust and quote Deuteronomy 5 to explain "God's" desires.
Just a few pages over, Deuteronomy 21 says that same god has a desire for us to kill children that are misbheaving. So is that one out-dated, while Deuteronomy 5 is still valid?
Leviticus, Exodus, Samuel, and many other parts of the Old Testament have similar atrocities; yet you let them slide and make excuses for why that is uncomfortable for you to understand.
If you're going to quote the Old Testament as your source for your god's desires, you must also be responsibile for the horrific actions commanded by that same god in that same book.
You are picking and choosing parts of the bible that suit your position, while not being honest about the parts that haunt you.
Doubt God knows what He is doing - Not one bit - Struggle with comprehending why alot of evil takes place - Yes - who doesn't - But I do not "blame" God for man's actions - What would you say if Jaycee said it was an answered prayer as well as her parents?
What if one day Jaycee had so much love in her heart to forgive them? .....Man that would blow your mind completely wouldn't it? - It wouldn not mine. See, I know God is good and wants good. And I know He can take this enitre situation and turn it into something so amazingly beautiful. Does that take away the pain and memories. One day the pain,maybe...memories, probably not. - That hard core fact is you do not know how to HOPE in anything negative for good. And that is a feeling of freedom in itself. - Hope is an area you complete lack and fail in.
Assuming that you have me figured out is your biggest mistake.
As a counselor in training, and continuing my education in psychology, I am constantly working with people to turn negative situations and memories into positive things through behavior modifcation and HOPE in themselves to get better.
I just don't HOPE in a god or any metaphysical intervention. I am a human working with other humans to repair what has been damanged.
Further, I have HOPE that my children will continue to be productive citizens making a positive impact on society long after I'm gone.
I HOPE that each day I wake up, I am doing everything I can to be the best father, husband, and mentor I can. I have TRUST (one variation of the word faith) in the people I work with, in my family, and in science to further our medical capabilities. I also HOPE and TRUST that science will continue to answer these types of questions, but I am not 100% confident that it will do so perfectly. It will forever be changing and updated as new evidence is introduced. We have the right to challenge those findings and constantly revisit the texts of previous scientists and prove them wrong.
But I do not, and will not have hope, faith, or complete trust in an ancient book that we are not allowed to retest, update, or defy with logic.
Deut 21 - Laws of the land at that time Remember, don't mix church and state ...Those were the laws ...We have laws now .....Which laws do you not like now? - Son does not infer a child...Read again. ...What exactly was the description of the "son" in this chapter - Before you go quoting anything of the Bible that you hate, get ir right.
"Assuming that you have me figured out is your biggest mistake" - Let's change this around Assuming you have God figured out is your worst mistak".....And you do do this.
You can only try to swing things back on me instead of addressing the fallacies in your book. You like the one-line zingers. But surely they don't convince you. They only make yourself hopeful that you're impressing others.
The son is depicted as a teenager. So it's okay to kill them, since they're not technically children? Come on.
What about Amalek, and the instructed slaughtering of "men, women, and nursing children" commanded by your god? Was that a "law back then?"
What about the killing of homosexuals and adulterers, in direct contradition with Thou Shalt Not Kill in Exodus?
What about the immoral test of Abraham to kill his son as proof he loved your sadistic god, who is supposed to KNOW ALL any way?
That book is full of disgusting behaivor like that which you can't explain except by making up stories that even your fellow Christians won't agree with.
13 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor. - So I am assuming that all who break the law NOW should get off 'scott-free"? - READ YOUR BIBLE AGAIN DAVID There is a HUGE difference between KILLING AND MURDER - an instance of acceptable “killing” is that which is done during times of war and at the command of superiors. There were quite a few instances in Scripture where God endorsed and allowed the taking of other lives (1 Samuel 11; Judges 6–7). - Premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will. - From the human perspective, murder is the physical act of taking another’s life. However, we also must consider that God defines murder as any thought or feeling of deep seated hatred or malice against another person. In other words it is more than just a physical act that constitutes murder to God who tells us that “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15 ESV). When we harbor hatred in our hearts for another, we have committed the sin of murder in God’s eyes. The disdain towards another person never has to be demonstrated outwardly because God looks upon the heart for the truth (1 Samuel 16:7; Matthew 15:19). As Christians and as human beings we know that unjustified killing is wrong. God’s Word is very clear on this point: “You shall not murder.” And what God says we must obey or we face the consequences on judgment day.
WEBSTER DICTIONAR - MURDER Main Entry: 1mur·der Pronunciation: \ˈmÉ™r-dÉ™r\ Function: noun Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Anglo-French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal Date: before 12th century 1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought -
Wow. You really have to stretch to make that seem ok and understandable. I could write a 4 page essay on the difference between breathing and taking a breath, with that logic. It doesn't make it accurate or logical.
How far are you willing to go? How much nonsense are you willing to defend before you finally realize the stretches you are making to defend this atrocious and violent book of massacres so that you won't be wrong?
Killing in the name of your god is ok and justified? That's what the Christian Crusaders thought that killed thousands in the name of Jesus. That's what the terrorists thought on 9/11. I suppose you agree with them. After all, their god said to do it, so it couldbn't possibily be immoral. Who can argue with that? Prove their god is wrong. Prove their god doesn't exist. For every passage you have that says their god is false, they have one that says yours is. The Christian muderers are no different than the Islamic terrorists. They just call nonsense by a different name.
We could walk into a store, grab a random cook book, flip to a random page, and I could tell a story, and make sense of all the ingredients by using that logic. I could make it sound like it was all planned, and you can't prove me wrong as long as magic is on my side. I can't believe you don't see that!
I'm blown away by your presentation of this ancient text as 'evidence' when it's clearly a dying dinosaur of scientific fallacies and chauvinistic men trying to explain natural phenomena with magic and run the natural world, keeping power over women, slaves, and other areas of land. It's so archaic and poisoning to it's core.
You said this: "Premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will."
How is the testing of Abraham not commanded premeditated murder? I know that Isaac didn't actually die as a result of his actions, but your god commanded the murder of a child! Don't you see that?! And this was commanded so to "prove" to "God" that he was devoted. WHAT?! God is supposed to know everything, but after the near-murder "God" says "Now I know you love me..." and rewards Abraham greatly for his devotion! Now he knows? He knew everything! Yet another ridiculous contradiction.
That immoral behavior of hearing voices of "God," and then tying his son down to kill him, is rewarded. NONE OF THAT makes a bit of sense, and you know it. What we do with Abraham today? He'd be locked up in a mental institution and the world would hate him. But "God" rewards that behavior. And you worship him.
That is very sad to me.
If you heard "God" command you to kill your child to prove your love for him, would you do it?
Honestly, not sure what I would do. - Abraham and Isaac was a symbolism of Jesus Christ dying on the Cross. - But, I just really do not know what I would do, how I would respond....
If you had only one dose of medicine and was not 100% sure it was going to cure your son from dying, but was 100% sure it would save the rest of mankind, whwt would you do?
If you were not 100% sure the meds would cure you son and keep him from dying, but WERE 100% suer the meds would keep all the rest of mankind from dying, what would you do?
A...Take a chance and give the meds to your son, knowing the rest of mankind would die
B. Give the meds to the rest of mankind, knowing your son will die.
It would be by far, the most difficult thing I had ever done, but I would have to choose B. I couldn't--nor do I think my son, could live knowing we could have saved billions, but acted selfishly.
With all that said; you gave me a choice of EVERYONE DYING, or MY SON DYING. Abraham wasn't faced with that. He heard voices that told him to kill his son, and he acted on it, and was rewarded for that. That's sick, but promoted by Christians as the ultimate faith in "God."
Don't you think God felt the same when he sacrificed His own Son for all of mankind? - well, either way, you just killed your son.
And if you would have given your son the meds, you just killed the rest of mankind. - So what you just said from your heart is killing either way you look at it.
That's a ridiculous analogy! And not giving a cure isn't the same as killing. That logic says that hospice is murder, and it's obviously not. Give me a break.
Besides, if I was a god with ultimate powers, NO ONE WOULD HAVE TO DIE. You seem to pretend that your god has human limitations and has to play by our rules, while still having a godly presence and ultimate power.
You're just being as contradictory as the book you support.
Yeah, I knew you cannot see the light. You always have a rebutle and would not dare admit you might be wrong. - Not ridiculous. You had one dose of medicine to save either your son or the world. - You are your own god David, You know more than God and do things alot better.
BTW - David you just imitated God is that you just sacrificed your son to save mankind. - You chose to let your son die for the entire world. Grace for the world. - Now that was complete selflessness.
The point I made still stands. I only made that decision because I am a human with very little power. If I were a god in that hypothetical quetsion, NO ONE would have died.
The only reason "his son" had to die to save mankind, is because in that story, he chose to play by rules that he created. If he was god, he could have changed the game at any time to not lose his son.
I am blonde, yes. A fool, no. Perfected, no. Getting there, yes. Waiting for the day to see God face to face. ABSOULETLY AND SO EXCITED. I thoroughly love being on God's team.
So, you are either with God or you are with Satan. There is no gray matter. It is one or the other. I choose God.
The irony in all of this is that you still have not proven God does not exist.
You "won"---> Humble thyself David. If you cannot humble yourself now, you will one day.
Like I said before ...Better to be a blonde and believe, than A fool who does not believe.
And exactly how do you PROVE the donkey did not talk? ..........Odie, the talking pug ..........Oh Long Johnson - talking cat ..........A talking cat,Cingene ..........the cat named Tiggy ..........A seal named Hoover talked ..........Batyr, the elephant ..........The parrot
Maybe evolution is the reason donkeys and snakes cant talk anymore...lol. Just like goosebumps or the appendix they didn't need it and it was for their benefit not to. Heck I can imagine talking snakes and donkeys slaughtered by those who were threatened by them. Clearly some animals are still able to do things resembaling speech.
You never know Smalley... can you prove that evolution didn't weed out the ability for snakes and donkeys to speak?
And since I can't prove that evolution has stopped animals from talking, then evolution must be false too, regardless of any fossils found. Those are probably fake, or were lanted by God to test our faith! Therefore, one of the creation stories in the Bible must be true (just pick one that fits best for you)! Praise Jesus.
And God doesn't make evil happen. The choices of man makes evil happen because they have free will. So when earthquakes kill children, or Tsunamis wipe out entire villages; Praise Jesus.
And women need to keep their mouth shut in church. Praise Jesus. and Praise Jesus.
And God can't possibly create anything bad, so if someone forced themself to be with the opposite sex against their own will just to be defiant of God's word, then we should kill them. Praise Jesus.
And anything that is NOT praising Jesus or God, is praising Satan, so I will pray for my web site to be crashed in the name of Jesus. (Luke 11:9-13)
Wow. It feels so good to be saved, and damn everyone else to Hell. Whew! What a load off my back--now all my problems are God's, and I can just wander the earth accepting God's will as whatever happens that I can't control, and let "Jesus Take the Wheel." This is sweet! Why didn't I convert before?!
OMG! Don't do it... Don't jump...lol. It was a joke I didn't mean to send you over the edge!
Well kind of a joke, I like to play devils advocate sometimes. But it could have happened that way, its the only logical answer for christians to actually believe donkeys talked but then they would have to accept evolution as an option...lol. It was fun to stump you a little as well.
Non-christian who still believes in a God here. Your post count looked kind of sad so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.
BTW I thinked you wiped the floor with Hildreth. But I would have liked to see you include the fact that the jesus story was not a unique one at the time the bible was written. The same story was floating around about Horus or Mithra long before jesus came about. A coincidence or plagiarism? From birth to resurrection the jesus story was told long before jesus was born about other Gods.
I do not think any person in that audience changed their mind though. As I said before it is a process to turn away from the bible and as a student of psychology you should know that. You cannot get these people to jump ahead in the process. A little bit of doubt is required and a desire to investigate is also required. Those that simply sit in church and read what they are told to will never find that little spark of doubt. They are content to follow and too lazy to find out more.
Horus was born to Isis; there is no mention in history of her being called “Mary.” Moreover, Mary is our anglicized form of her real name ‘Miryam’ or Miriam. “Mary” was not even used in the original texts of Scripture. • Isis was not a virgin; she was the widow of Osiris and conceived Horus with Osiris. • Horus was born during month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), not December 25. Further, there is no mention in the Bible as to Christ’s actual birth date. • There is no record of three kings visiting Horus at his birth. The Bible never states the actual number of magi that came to see Christ. • Horus is not a “savior” in any shape or form; he did not die for anyone. • There are no accounts of Horus being a teacher at the age of 12. • Horus was not “baptized.” The only account of Horus that involves water is one story where Horus is torn to pieces, with Isis requesting the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was placed into. • Horus did not have a “ministry.” • Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers and some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. • There is no account of Horus being betrayed by a friend. • Horus did not die by crucifixion. There are various accounts of Horus’ death, but none of them involve crucifixion. • There is no account of Horus being buried for three days. • Horus was not resurrected. There is no account of Horus coming out of the grave with the body he went in with. Some accounts have Horus/Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and going to be the lord of the underworld.
• He was born out of a solid rock and not from any woman. • He battled first with the sun and then a primeval bull, thought to be the first act of creation. Mithras killed the bull, which then became the ground of life for the human race. • Mithras birth was celebrated on December 25, along with Winter solstice. • There is no mention of him as being a great teacher. • There is no mention of Mithras having 12 disciples. The idea that Mithras had 12 disciples may have come from a mural in which Mithras is surrounded by twelve signs of the Zodiac. • Mithras had no bodily resurrection. The myth is told that Mithras completed his earthly mission then was taken to paradise in a chariot, alive and well. The early Christian writer Tertullian did write about Mithras believers re-enacting resurrection scenes, but he wrote about this occurring well after New Testament times, so if any copycatting was done, it was the cult of Mithras copying from Christianity.
And here is a link to an objective site comparing the similarities of the Horus and Jesus stories. And it includes the questionable comparisons as well. Can you tell me the source for the copy and paste above.
I remeber your passion when you saw Him at Ripleys. You felt His pain then. Now you deny IT. You were once angry at what happened to Him. Now you deny Him?
No. I no longer fear for your soul. I no longer pray for it for it is a done deal
You will return to Him and many of the lost, with you, you will bring.
I no longer have to pray to Him to give you the knowledge to see His purpose for you.
He loves me and He knows I love Him and He has assured me that you will be closer to HIM than me. I am so thankful. I Thank You Lord for bringing him back to You with his family before it was too late. Can't wait to see your strength in action when your time comes to speak up for Him. You know that there will be nothing for you say but "Thy Will Be Done"
Incidently, I liked the bible you held up. It was nice!
I read about how the "Father" commanded the death of gays and adulterers and innocent babies, and entire villages, yet commanded to be called all-good. I came to understand psychology and how the brain actually works and why people believe in religion. I am past that now. I've grown up.
I know that book was written by men. I lost count of the contradictions. I read about donkey's talking, and snakes tempting people. It's a huge myth and the only amazing part about is that so many intelligent people buy it hook line and sinker.
I will not "go back." That's like forcing yourself to believe in Santa again. Once you know better, you know better. There's nothing I can do about the belief. I can't force myself to pretend it's true, like I used to.
I have to be honest with myself, and I wish you would do the same. Here's the difference:
The christian reads the Bible with the presumption that God is real. The Atheist reads the Bible to evaluate the religion and see if he believes it or not. That's why we reject it, and you make excuses for it.
It's okay. It's normal. It's group psychology at it's finest. But don't drag me into your flock of following sheep. I want no part of it.
In the debate Hildreth said, "The Bible is infallible and is the perfectly inspired word of God."
Could a Christian please tell me what is perfect about the Bible? Using my definition of perfect, I can find virtually nothing that could be considered perfect in the Bible. What definition of perfect do Christians use? And exactly how does the Bible demonstrate their definition of perfect? Examples please.
You can't serve two masters. The two powers are gods and the devel. Pick one? They can't both be in power as one would wipe the other one out. It was said by anoymous something to the effect that " your eather with god or the devil. Please... No one uses this anymore as it make no sense for a most powerful god to allow a devel to live , or maybe the devil is most powerful. which is it? Grow up,even children understand the logic.
Ok David, Jason who contacted you from the Barry Creamer show on live from Criswell. Just have a couple of questions. 1)Ok, from an atheist standpoint, what actually does an atheist believe, do atheist believe in the evolution theory since atheist believe there is no God? 2) if there wasn't a divine created ( God Jesus), then how is the earth standing in space held on by nothing, and if you do believe in the "big bang", how did the Sun end up in the right spot & be so Hot, but not burn us humans alive? U actually believe that the sun knew how far to be away from earth on its own? 3) last but not least, u say that my God Jesus is unfair, if he is so unfair, then u have grown cold towards Jesus obviously, but u still are here and have time to repent and have a chance to be saved and live eternally. I'm praying for ur conversion, don't let Satan cloud ur mind and lead u astray, he knows where he is going, he has no chance, you do David. I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't have Love for ya David. Be cool and talk to you soon, u can directly email me at gray1983@yahoo.com God Bless!
I'm not David, but here you go, Jason: 1) Atheists don't necessarily believe in anything. Who says humans have to pick something to "believe in"? Personally, I simply "believe" things that are supported by reliable evidence and/or logic and reason, which is also known as "having common sense." Most atheists, just like most people of average intelligence, accept evolution as a scientific truth, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with not believing in God. Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution. So if you don't, perhaps you're just not taking the issue seriously.
2) Over many millions of years, life evolved on this planet because it had the right conditions for life. The planet was here long before we were, and it was not created just for us. If the sun was not in the "right spot", then life would have evolved somewhere else in the universe where things were in the right spot. Not to be mean, Jason, but your description of the earth "standing in space held on by nothing" reveals your total lack of understanding of space and physics. Please pay more attention in school. I'm not sure I can even begin to explain how incorrect that statement is, because I think that you really have no clear concept of the universe you live in.
3) It is nice that you care about David's eternal soul and have offered a message of hope, but you may not realize that us atheists have heard all that before. It is not persuasive, because we don't believe in God, Jesus, Satan, or eternal life. IF we believed in some kind of god, then MAYBE your message would hold some meaning for us, but realize that we rejected all of that kind of thinking long ago, and it really has no appeal for us.
ok Stutz, Just because u dont believe in something, does not believe its not there. U can not see those small molecules flying aroung ur head, but does that mean it isnt there? Just because u dont believe in Satan doesnt mean he doesnt exist. Ur view of things are warped, u brain is clouded because of ur lack of understanding. My Jesus is the maker of all of this and u will see one day and EVERY knee WILL bow to Jesus. Repent now and turn from what u believe or u will have no choice later, u have a chance now, dont be deceived by the evil one, he has u right where he wants u. Remember Satan has been around a long time so he is smarter in his deception. CHANGE Today!!!
To the anonymous one comment above me... Well i have to say, that if anyone in the bible is deceiving its jesus. He leads people blindly to his "father" the orwellian dictator. Anyways, people believe in atoms and molecules because we have proof they exist.(i.e. nuclear fusion/fission.) How do you think the atomic bomb works? Maybe god did it. You, sir, believe in your god out of fear.
-P.S. my computers spellcheck did not recognize the word "jesus"... does that mean my computer is an atheist? :)
Im confused on how you guys believe in Science books which others wrote that changes dang near every year because no ince is 100% right and not beleve in the BIBLE whch someone wrote that has remained EXACTLY the same over a longer period of time? Im trying to understand you atheist point of view yet you guys points are bogus honestly. Spell check for Jesus wouldnt be in the computer because im pretty sure good didnt create the computer but the world. Also the bible says the their is nothing New under the Sun so how can it predict the future yet not be real? isnt that crazy let us think!
Please know that no one can be forced to believe where just trying to make you understand. "For you can bring a cow to the water but cant make them drink",my mother use to say. So people you can give a atheist a bible but u cant make them believe! #FREEWILL
69 comments:
In your complaint of the earth only being 20% habitable so therefore imperfect I ask... Is there not enough room for you?
And its interesting that you believe that everything began from a singularity instead of either stating you dont know, or that it always was. The fact that it had a beginning at all is not provable by either side.
And it seems also that you believe that if there was a God then we should have heaven on earth. No bad thing should exist here if there was a God. But this is not heaven, its earth, therefore bad things exist and bad things happen and one must endure while here, but there is the promise of heaven for those who believe, a relief from this world, the suffering is temporary.
My favorite answer by Michael was when he stated that God wants you to feed the children.
And my favorite item from you was Camera Operator Unknown Drunk
But in all seriousness, I think you did a good job. I'm quite sure no one had a light bulb moment in the audience but nonetheless, it was entertaining.
Michael kind of lost me where he said with faith you can completely accept a talking donkey, nothing wrong with that... Any further argument after that is futile...
Oh Trust me, a donkey can talk....It spoke in the debate.
David
I wanted to get some clarity from you on the Jaycee Duggard issue, which you did not answer in the other blogs.
She was finally rescued and escaped from this torture, rape, etc. Which, yes the entire thing is despicable.
Now that she has been rescued, set free, who is it that you are going to give the credit too?
Was this an aswered prayer according to Jaycee's parents? Did God finally answer their prayers? Did God intervene?
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Denese
Of course no god intervened. A female police officer that noticed suspicious behavior is what finally rescued the girls.
They had no medical care, had never been to school, and no interraction from the outside world.
To imagine that any god watched her suffer; being raped and abused, and held captive from the innocent age of 11, and finally 'decided' to save her at age 29 is dispicable, immoral, and grotesque.
As for me being tasked with feeding all the starving children in the world--again, that's pretty sadistic to make them starve and suffer to see if I "pass a test."
I wish you would think about these things from an objective standpoint instead of just letting a "one-line zinger" impress you.
But police officers had failed before. Are the police officers within your own circle of humanity?
Who or what gave the police officer the intelligence to notice?
Where did the police officer's sense of urgency come from?
So if God does not work according to YOUR own thoughts and timing, He does not exist and is dispicable?
It's not about my thoughts or expectations. It's about the description in the Bible of the god depicted as being "All-good," and "All-powerful," and "Omnipresent."
That is inconsistent with what happened to Jaycee Dugard.
And where did she get her sense of urgency? Years of training.
"And where did she get her sense of urgency? Years of training."
=
As I said before, the other officers failed, even with their years of training.
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What is it exactly that YOU expect from God?
The bible also says God allows evil - Mans Free Will.
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You cannot believe one and not the other.
God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin.
This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right.
Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.
Another choice would have God compensating for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100% of the time. For instance, if a drunk driver causes an automobile accident, God would have to keep him and the people in the other automobile from getting harmed, for there would be many people who could possibly be caused to suffer from the accident or the death / injury of those involved in the accident.
God would have to keep the drunk driver from crashing into power lines, buildings, etc. because these things would cause innocent people to suffer.
I don't expect anything from any god, because they do not exist. Again, I am only making the point that the biblical description of what "God" is, is inconsistent with what happens in reality.
As I stated in the debate, my children have free will, until they use that will to infringe upon the other child. Then, I intervene to stop violance or abuse. Your god is supposed to be all-good and all-powerful, yet abuse happens every day without his intervention. Therefore, he must not exist.
It is the contradiction of existence I am pointing out--not an actual expectation of any god doing anything.
Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all.
We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.
2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)
9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance
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There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to judge them
When He created the Old Testament Laws, He established laws that discourage and punish evil. He judged nations and kings who disregard justice and pursue evil.
Likewise in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13).
He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially on the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42), which says
36 He took a little child and had him stand among them. Taking him in his arms, he said to them, 37 “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”
Whoever Is Not Against Us Is for Us
38 “Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
39 “Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, 40 for whoever is not against us is for us. 41 I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.
Causing to Sin
42 “And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck
I'm sure that explanation makes Jaycee Dugard completely understand the "delay."
You're just making excuses for the absence of your creator and savior. I have a hard time believing that you actually buy all of these excuses. You have to be doubting some of this nonsense.
Mr. Smalley
With all do respect, we live in a real world, where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us.
God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29).
What really happens is that we choose our own way and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit. So He is able to do for those who will turn from evil and call on Jesus to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17).
God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil.
Rather than blaming God and questioning God for why He does not prevent all evil - we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences - Jesus Christ!
Again, there is an inconsistancy in your argument. You trust and quote Deuteronomy 5 to explain "God's" desires.
Just a few pages over, Deuteronomy 21 says that same god has a desire for us to kill children that are misbheaving. So is that one out-dated, while Deuteronomy 5 is still valid?
Leviticus, Exodus, Samuel, and many other parts of the Old Testament have similar atrocities; yet you let them slide and make excuses for why that is uncomfortable for you to understand.
If you're going to quote the Old Testament as your source for your god's desires, you must also be responsibile for the horrific actions commanded by that same god in that same book.
You are picking and choosing parts of the bible that suit your position, while not being honest about the parts that haunt you.
Doubt God knows what He is doing - Not one bit
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Struggle with comprehending why alot of evil takes place - Yes - who doesn't
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But I do not "blame" God for man's actions
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What would you say if Jaycee said it was an answered prayer as well as her parents?
What if one day Jaycee had so much love in her heart to forgive them?
.....Man that would blow your mind completely wouldn't it?
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It wouldn not mine. See, I know God is good and wants good. And I know He can take this enitre situation and turn it into something so amazingly beautiful. Does that take away the pain and memories. One day the pain,maybe...memories, probably not.
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That hard core fact is you do not know how to HOPE in anything negative for good. And that is a feeling of freedom in itself.
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Hope is an area you complete lack and fail in.
Assuming that you have me figured out is your biggest mistake.
As a counselor in training, and continuing my education in psychology, I am constantly working with people to turn negative situations and memories into positive things through behavior modifcation and HOPE in themselves to get better.
I just don't HOPE in a god or any metaphysical intervention. I am a human working with other humans to repair what has been damanged.
Further, I have HOPE that my children will continue to be productive citizens making a positive impact on society long after I'm gone.
I HOPE that each day I wake up, I am doing everything I can to be the best father, husband, and mentor I can. I have TRUST (one variation of the word faith) in the people I work with, in my family, and in science to further our medical capabilities. I also HOPE and TRUST that science will continue to answer these types of questions, but I am not 100% confident that it will do so perfectly. It will forever be changing and updated as new evidence is introduced. We have the right to challenge those findings and constantly revisit the texts of previous scientists and prove them wrong.
But I do not, and will not have hope, faith, or complete trust in an ancient book that we are not allowed to retest, update, or defy with logic.
Deut 21
- Laws of the land at that time
Remember, don't mix church and state
...Those were the laws
...We have laws now
.....Which laws do you not like now?
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Son does not infer a child...Read again.
...What exactly was the description of the "son" in this chapter
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Before you go quoting anything of the Bible that you hate, get ir right.
"Assuming that you have me figured out is your biggest mistake"
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Let's change this around
Assuming you have God figured out is your worst mistak".....And you do do this.
You can only try to swing things back on me instead of addressing the fallacies in your book. You like the one-line zingers. But surely they don't convince you. They only make yourself hopeful that you're impressing others.
The son is depicted as a teenager. So it's okay to kill them, since they're not technically children? Come on.
What about Amalek, and the instructed slaughtering of "men, women, and nursing children" commanded by your god? Was that a "law back then?"
What about the killing of homosexuals and adulterers, in direct contradition with Thou Shalt Not Kill in Exodus?
What about the immoral test of Abraham to kill his son as proof he loved your sadistic god, who is supposed to KNOW ALL any way?
That book is full of disgusting behaivor like that which you can't explain except by making up stories that even your fellow Christians won't agree with.
Romans 13
Submission to the Authorities
13 Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4 For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
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So I am assuming that all who break the law NOW should get off 'scott-free"?
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READ YOUR BIBLE AGAIN DAVID
There is a HUGE difference between KILLING AND MURDER
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an instance of acceptable “killing” is that which is done during times of war and at the command of superiors. There were quite a few instances in Scripture where God endorsed and allowed the taking of other lives (1 Samuel 11; Judges 6–7).
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Premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will.
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From the human perspective, murder is the physical act of taking another’s life. However, we also must consider that God defines murder as any thought or feeling of deep seated hatred or malice against another person. In other words it is more than just a physical act that constitutes murder to God who tells us that “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15 ESV). When we harbor hatred in our hearts for another, we have committed the sin of murder in God’s eyes. The disdain towards another person never has to be demonstrated outwardly because God looks upon the heart for the truth (1 Samuel 16:7; Matthew 15:19). As Christians and as human beings we know that unjustified killing is wrong. God’s Word is very clear on this point: “You shall not murder.” And what God says we must obey or we face the consequences on judgment day.
WEBSTER DICTIONAR
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MURDER
Main Entry: 1mur·der
Pronunciation: \ˈmər-dər\
Function: noun
Etymology: partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Anglo-French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal
Date: before 12th century
1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
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SEE THAT WORD - UNLAWFULLY
Wow. You really have to stretch to make that seem ok and understandable. I could write a 4 page essay on the difference between breathing and taking a breath, with that logic. It doesn't make it accurate or logical.
How far are you willing to go? How much nonsense are you willing to defend before you finally realize the stretches you are making to defend this atrocious and violent book of massacres so that you won't be wrong?
Killing in the name of your god is ok and justified? That's what the Christian Crusaders thought that killed thousands in the name of Jesus. That's what the terrorists thought on 9/11. I suppose you agree with them. After all, their god said to do it, so it couldbn't possibily be immoral. Who can argue with that? Prove their god is wrong. Prove their god doesn't exist. For every passage you have that says their god is false, they have one that says yours is. The Christian muderers are no different than the Islamic terrorists. They just call nonsense by a different name.
We could walk into a store, grab a random cook book, flip to a random page, and I could tell a story, and make sense of all the ingredients by using that logic. I could make it sound like it was all planned, and you can't prove me wrong as long as magic is on my side. I can't believe you don't see that!
I'm blown away by your presentation of this ancient text as 'evidence' when it's clearly a dying dinosaur of scientific fallacies and chauvinistic men trying to explain natural phenomena with magic and run the natural world, keeping power over women, slaves, and other areas of land. It's so archaic and poisoning to it's core.
You said this: "Premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will."
How is the testing of Abraham not commanded premeditated murder? I know that Isaac didn't actually die as a result of his actions, but your god commanded the murder of a child! Don't you see that?! And this was commanded so to "prove" to "God" that he was devoted. WHAT?! God is supposed to know everything, but after the near-murder "God" says "Now I know you love me..." and rewards Abraham greatly for his devotion! Now he knows? He knew everything! Yet another ridiculous contradiction.
That immoral behavior of hearing voices of "God," and then tying his son down to kill him, is rewarded. NONE OF THAT makes a bit of sense, and you know it. What we do with Abraham today? He'd be locked up in a mental institution and the world would hate him. But "God" rewards that behavior. And you worship him.
That is very sad to me.
If you heard "God" command you to kill your child to prove your love for him, would you do it?
Honestly, not sure what I would do.
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Abraham and Isaac was a symbolism of Jesus Christ dying on the Cross.
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But, I just really do not know what I would do, how I would respond....
If you had only one dose of medicine and was not 100% sure it was going to cure your son from dying, but was 100% sure it would save the rest of mankind, whwt would you do?
I can't make sense of the question. Can you reword it? I'm not sure what you're asking of me.
If you were not 100% sure the meds would cure you son and keep him from dying, but WERE 100% suer the meds would keep all the rest of mankind from dying, what would you do?
A...Take a chance and give the meds to your son, knowing the rest of mankind would die
B. Give the meds to the rest of mankind, knowing your son will die.
BTW
It is an A or B answer.
Simple
A or B
It would be by far, the most difficult thing I had ever done, but I would have to choose B. I couldn't--nor do I think my son, could live knowing we could have saved billions, but acted selfishly.
With all that said; you gave me a choice of EVERYONE DYING, or MY SON DYING. Abraham wasn't faced with that. He heard voices that told him to kill his son, and he acted on it, and was rewarded for that. That's sick, but promoted by Christians as the ultimate faith in "God."
It simply sends the wrong message.
Don't you think God felt the same when he sacrificed His own Son for all of mankind?
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well, either way, you just killed your son.
And if you would have given your son the meds, you just killed the rest of mankind.
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So what you just said from your heart is killing either way you look at it.
That's a ridiculous analogy! And not giving a cure isn't the same as killing. That logic says that hospice is murder, and it's obviously not. Give me a break.
Besides, if I was a god with ultimate powers, NO ONE WOULD HAVE TO DIE. You seem to pretend that your god has human limitations and has to play by our rules, while still having a godly presence and ultimate power.
You're just being as contradictory as the book you support.
Yeah, I knew you cannot see the light. You always have a rebutle and would not dare admit you might be wrong.
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Not ridiculous.
You had one dose of medicine to save either your son or the world.
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You are your own god David, You know more than God and do things alot better.
BTW - David you just imitated God is that you just sacrificed your son to save mankind.
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You chose to let your son die for the entire world. Grace for the world.
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Now that was complete selflessness.
The point I made still stands. I only made that decision because I am a human with very little power. If I were a god in that hypothetical quetsion, NO ONE would have died.
The only reason "his son" had to die to save mankind, is because in that story, he chose to play by rules that he created. If he was god, he could have changed the game at any time to not lose his son.
I didn't have that option in my hypothetical.
of course.
Funny - looks like not many are interested anymore.
It was obvious that I won. :)
Atheist yet?
David:
I am blonde, yes. A fool, no. Perfected, no. Getting there, yes. Waiting for the day to see God face to face. ABSOULETLY AND SO EXCITED. I thoroughly love being on God's team.
So, you are either with God or you are with Satan. There is no gray matter. It is one or the other. I choose God.
The irony in all of this is that you still have not proven God does not exist.
You "won"---> Humble thyself David. If you cannot humble yourself now, you will one day.
Like I said before
...Better to be a blonde and believe, than
A fool who does not believe.
And exactly how do you PROVE the donkey did not talk?
..........Odie, the talking pug
..........Oh Long Johnson - talking cat
..........A talking cat,Cingene
..........the cat named Tiggy
..........A seal named Hoover talked
..........Batyr, the elephant
..........The parrot
;-)
Denese
Maybe evolution is the reason donkeys and snakes cant talk anymore...lol. Just like goosebumps or the appendix they didn't need it and it was for their benefit not to. Heck I can imagine talking snakes and donkeys slaughtered by those who were threatened by them. Clearly some animals are still able to do things resembaling speech.
You never know Smalley... can you prove that evolution didn't weed out the ability for snakes and donkeys to speak?
I cannot. Therefore God exists. And it must be the Christian version. Praise Jesus.
David Smalley said...
I cannot. Therefore God exists. And it must be the Christian version. Praise Jesus.
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Now that's the spirit....Go David Go !!!
Okay, since you've encouraged me, I will go on...
And since I can't prove that evolution has stopped animals from talking, then evolution must be false too, regardless of any fossils found. Those are probably fake, or were lanted by God to test our faith! Therefore, one of the creation stories in the Bible must be true (just pick one that fits best for you)! Praise Jesus.
And God doesn't make evil happen. The choices of man makes evil happen because they have free will. So when earthquakes kill children, or Tsunamis wipe out entire villages; Praise Jesus.
And women need to keep their mouth shut in church. Praise Jesus. and Praise Jesus.
And God can't possibly create anything bad, so if someone forced themself to be with the opposite sex against their own will just to be defiant of God's word, then we should kill them. Praise Jesus.
And anything that is NOT praising Jesus or God, is praising Satan, so I will pray for my web site to be crashed in the name of Jesus. (Luke 11:9-13)
Wow. It feels so good to be saved, and damn everyone else to Hell. Whew! What a load off my back--now all my problems are God's, and I can just wander the earth accepting God's will as whatever happens that I can't control, and let "Jesus Take the Wheel." This is sweet! Why didn't I convert before?!
OMG! Don't do it... Don't jump...lol. It was a joke I didn't mean to send you over the edge!
Well kind of a joke, I like to play devils advocate sometimes. But it could have happened that way, its the only logical answer for christians to actually believe donkeys talked but then they would have to accept evolution as an option...lol. It was fun to stump you a little as well.
Non-christian who still believes in a God here. Your post count looked kind of sad so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents.
BTW I thinked you wiped the floor with Hildreth. But I would have liked to see you include the fact that the jesus story was not a unique one at the time the bible was written. The same story was floating around about Horus or Mithra long before jesus came about. A coincidence or plagiarism? From birth to resurrection the jesus story was told long before jesus was born about other Gods.
I do not think any person in that audience changed their mind though. As I said before it is a process to turn away from the bible and as a student of psychology you should know that. You cannot get these people to jump ahead in the process. A little bit of doubt is required and a desire to investigate is also required. Those that simply sit in church and read what they are told to will never find that little spark of doubt. They are content to follow and too lazy to find out more.
I study all the time and still believe.
It is a free will choice and I do not have a gun or condemantion hoovering over me.
Horus was born to Isis; there is no mention in history of her being called “Mary.” Moreover, Mary is our anglicized form of her real name ‘Miryam’ or Miriam. “Mary” was not even used in the original texts of Scripture.
• Isis was not a virgin; she was the widow of Osiris and conceived Horus with Osiris.
• Horus was born during month of Khoiak (Oct/Nov), not December 25. Further, there is no mention in the Bible as to Christ’s actual birth date.
• There is no record of three kings visiting Horus at his birth. The Bible never states the actual number of magi that came to see Christ.
• Horus is not a “savior” in any shape or form; he did not die for anyone.
• There are no accounts of Horus being a teacher at the age of 12.
• Horus was not “baptized.” The only account of Horus that involves water is one story where Horus is torn to pieces, with Isis requesting the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was placed into.
• Horus did not have a “ministry.”
• Horus did not have 12 disciples. According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers and some indications of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him.
• There is no account of Horus being betrayed by a friend.
• Horus did not die by crucifixion. There are various accounts of Horus’ death, but none of them involve crucifixion.
• There is no account of Horus being buried for three days.
• Horus was not resurrected. There is no account of Horus coming out of the grave with the body he went in with. Some accounts have Horus/Osiris being brought back to life by Isis and going to be the lord of the underworld.
Mithras?
• He was born out of a solid rock and not from any woman.
• He battled first with the sun and then a primeval bull, thought to be the first act of creation. Mithras killed the bull, which then became the ground of life for the human race.
• Mithras birth was celebrated on December 25, along with Winter solstice.
• There is no mention of him as being a great teacher.
• There is no mention of Mithras having 12 disciples. The idea that Mithras had 12 disciples may have come from a mural in which Mithras is surrounded by twelve signs of the Zodiac.
• Mithras had no bodily resurrection. The myth is told that Mithras completed his earthly mission then was taken to paradise in a chariot, alive and well. The early Christian writer Tertullian did write about Mithras believers re-enacting resurrection scenes, but he wrote about this occurring well after New Testament times, so if any copycatting was done, it was the cult of Mithras copying from Christianity.
"It is a free will choice and I do not have a gun or condemantion hoovering over me."
You have a fire burning pit to spend all of eternity hovering over you. Basically there is a gun to your head if you believe in it.
And here is a link to an objective site comparing the similarities of the Horus and Jesus stories. And it includes the questionable comparisons as well. Can you tell me the source for the copy and paste above.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm
I remeber your passion when you saw Him at Ripleys. You felt His pain then. Now you deny IT.
You were once angry at what happened to Him. Now you deny Him?
No. I no longer fear for your soul. I no longer pray for it for it is a done deal
You will return to Him and many of the lost, with you, you will bring.
I no longer have to pray to Him to give you the knowledge to see His purpose for you.
He loves me and He knows I love Him and He has assured me that you will be closer to HIM than me.
I am so thankful. I Thank You Lord for bringing him back to You with his family before it was too late. Can't wait to see your strength in action when your time comes to speak up for Him.
You know that there will be nothing for you say but "Thy Will Be Done"
Incidently, I liked the bible you held up. It was nice!
I was a child. I grew up.
I read about how the "Father" commanded the death of gays and adulterers and innocent babies, and entire villages, yet commanded to be called all-good. I came to understand psychology and how the brain actually works and why people believe in religion. I am past that now. I've grown up.
I know that book was written by men. I lost count of the contradictions. I read about donkey's talking, and snakes tempting people. It's a huge myth and the only amazing part about is that so many intelligent people buy it hook line and sinker.
I will not "go back." That's like forcing yourself to believe in Santa again. Once you know better, you know better. There's nothing I can do about the belief. I can't force myself to pretend it's true, like I used to.
I have to be honest with myself, and I wish you would do the same. Here's the difference:
The christian reads the Bible with the presumption that God is real. The Atheist reads the Bible to evaluate the religion and see if he believes it or not. That's why we reject it, and you make excuses for it.
It's okay. It's normal. It's group psychology at it's finest. But don't drag me into your flock of following sheep. I want no part of it.
One day you will now to the Lord Most High, jesus Chrisy. You will be held accountable and I pray Grace falls your way,
Should Grace turn away from you, it will be of your own fault and none nther.
You use your brain as if you think your psychology will help, but the part of your brain is so far from your bitter heart it reeks of evil.
Wow...
In the debate Hildreth said, "The Bible is infallible and is the perfectly inspired word of God."
Could a Christian please tell me what is perfect about the Bible? Using my definition of perfect, I can find virtually nothing that could be considered perfect in the Bible. What definition of perfect do Christians use? And exactly how does the Bible demonstrate their definition of perfect? Examples please.
What is the definition of infallible?
You can't serve two masters. The two powers are gods and the devel. Pick one? They can't both be in power as one would wipe the other one out. It was said by anoymous something to the effect that " your eather with god or the devil. Please... No one uses this anymore as it make no sense for a most powerful god to allow a devel to live , or maybe the devil is most powerful. which is it? Grow up,even children understand the logic.
Ok David, Jason who contacted you from the Barry Creamer show on live from Criswell. Just have a couple of questions.
1)Ok, from an atheist standpoint, what actually does an atheist believe, do atheist believe in the evolution theory since atheist believe there is no God?
2) if there wasn't a divine created ( God Jesus), then how is the earth standing in space held on by nothing, and if you do believe in the "big bang", how did the Sun end up in the right spot & be so Hot, but not burn us humans alive? U actually believe that the sun knew how far to be away from earth on its own?
3) last but not least, u say that my God Jesus is unfair, if he is so unfair, then u have grown cold towards Jesus obviously, but u still are here and have time to repent and have a chance to be saved and live eternally. I'm praying for ur conversion, don't let Satan cloud ur mind and lead u astray, he knows where he is going, he has no chance, you do David. I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't have Love for ya David. Be cool and talk to you soon, u can directly email me at gray1983@yahoo.com God Bless!
I'm not David, but here you go, Jason:
1) Atheists don't necessarily believe in anything. Who says humans have to pick something to "believe in"? Personally, I simply "believe" things that are supported by reliable evidence and/or logic and reason, which is also known as "having common sense." Most atheists, just like most people of average intelligence, accept evolution as a scientific truth, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with not believing in God. Even the Catholic Church accepts evolution. So if you don't, perhaps you're just not taking the issue seriously.
2) Over many millions of years, life evolved on this planet because it had the right conditions for life. The planet was here long before we were, and it was not created just for us. If the sun was not in the "right spot", then life would have evolved somewhere else in the universe where things were in the right spot. Not to be mean, Jason, but your description of the earth "standing in space held on by nothing" reveals your total lack of understanding of space and physics. Please pay more attention in school. I'm not sure I can even begin to explain how incorrect that statement is, because I think that you really have no clear concept of the universe you live in.
3) It is nice that you care about David's eternal soul and have offered a message of hope, but you may not realize that us atheists have heard all that before. It is not persuasive, because we don't believe in God, Jesus, Satan, or eternal life. IF we believed in some kind of god, then MAYBE your message would hold some meaning for us, but realize that we rejected all of that kind of thinking long ago, and it really has no appeal for us.
ok Stutz, Just because u dont believe in something, does not believe its not there. U can not see those small molecules flying aroung ur head, but does that mean it isnt there? Just because u dont believe in Satan doesnt mean he doesnt exist. Ur view of things are warped, u brain is clouded because of ur lack of understanding. My Jesus is the maker of all of this and u will see one day and EVERY knee WILL bow to Jesus. Repent now and turn from what u believe or u will have no choice later, u have a chance now, dont be deceived by the evil one, he has u right where he wants u. Remember Satan has been around a long time so he is smarter in his deception. CHANGE Today!!!
To the anonymous one comment above me...
Well i have to say, that if anyone in the bible is deceiving its jesus. He leads people blindly to his "father" the orwellian dictator. Anyways, people believe in atoms and molecules because we have proof they exist.(i.e. nuclear fusion/fission.) How do you think the atomic bomb works? Maybe god did it. You, sir, believe in your god out of fear.
-P.S. my computers spellcheck did not recognize the word "jesus"... does that mean my computer is an atheist? :)
As a side note, you may enjoy this:
Atheist) David Smalley vs. (Pastor) Dr. Barry Creamer, EVERY DAY THIS WEEK at 6:30PM CST and 10:30PM CST(repeat)on 90.9 KCBI FM, Dallas, TX
LISTEN LIVE ONLINE: http://www.kcbi.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=listenonline
Im confused on how you guys believe in Science books which others wrote that changes dang near every year because no ince is 100% right and not beleve in the BIBLE whch someone wrote that has remained EXACTLY the same over a longer period of time? Im trying to understand you atheist point of view yet you guys points are bogus honestly. Spell check for Jesus wouldnt be in the computer because im pretty sure good didnt create the computer but the world. Also the bible says the their is nothing New under the Sun so how can it predict the future yet not be real? isnt that crazy let us think!
Please know that no one can be forced to believe where just trying to make you understand. "For you can bring a cow to the water but cant make them drink",my mother use to say. So people you can give a atheist a bible but u cant make them believe! #FREEWILL
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