A new argument against faith, called the "Coin in the Field" argument, by David Smalley.
This was first published in the paperback copy of Baptized Atheist in 2010, and later revised in the audiobook version released in 2012, and ultimately refined here, as it's first official proposition as a new argument against faith.
Proposed Argument:
Suppose I took you and 30 friends to a field, and told you all: "Somewhere in this field, there is an ancient gold coin worth millions. All you have to do is find it, and it's yours." Immediately, everyone begins looking.
Hours pass. Some of you become weary and tired, and un-trusting. Eventually, a brave one in the group stands up to me and says "We've been looking for hours, and still nothing. I don't think there's a coin in this field."
My response is, "Well, obviously you're not looking properly. Once you find it, you'll know."
After a few days, another brave one stands up to me: "Prove to us there is a coin in this field."
My response is, "To make the assertion that there is no coin, you must prove there isn't one. Do you have all knowledge of this field, and have you inspected every inch of it's land? Then who are you to start your own belief of there being no coin? Why do you hate coins so much? Why are you against people finding wealth?" I then announce to the group, "Ladies and Gentlemen, I'm not sure this person can be trusted."
As the weeks pass, people quietly approach me with various arguments concerning the truth of my coin, as to not bring attention to themselves. I simply encourage them to have faith.
I say things like; "The truth is, there is a coin for each of you. But those who do not find a coin will suffer immense punishment in 20 years. Are you willing to take that chance? It's better to just keep looking."
I begin to offer guidance for finding the coin, so people listen very closely. This in turn, leads people to ask me for guidance on other issues.
Finances, marriage, morality, equality, etc. all become part of my specialities in counseling, as I take donations for my services. Pay taxes on it? Of course not! I'm not doing this for profit, I'm here to help you find the coin.
The atheists are the ones who go home first.
The atheist activists are the ones who go home, get water for everyone else, and come back with a bullhorn and a metal detector.
9 comments:
I do like the analogy listed, but I had to respond to the Pascal's Wager thing. This is a notoriously terrible argument and I find it frankly astonishing Dr. Barry Creamer thinks it's a superb argument. When Alicia frames it as "There can only be a heaven or hell so what's to lose" etc., she's flat out wrong. Those are not the only possibilities whatsoever, obviously with magical thinking involved. There is tons of information and refutations on Pascal's Wager, and I just found their view on it clueless or for lack of a better word, stupid.
I think you did pretty well in the interviews given the atmosphere, but honestly I think if you had more time to respond or think out your answers it would have been better. Dr. Barry Creamer and his callers seem like lightweights you'd find on a YouTube comment section.
Not that I could really demonstrate this, but I would manhandle them in a discussion/debate. They have nothing.. I mean, he's a creationist? He's a compartmentalizing, willfully ignorant guy. Much like the cop friend you've had on. They are just smug in their ignorance and shining examples of how religion turns their mind to mush. All they do is spin and pivot on assertions of magic. It's all a farce.
Sorry for the rant, keep up the good work.
Wanted to post an analogy/PoV on the faith argument I have seen and saved, although I did not fabricate it I have no idea who to give credit to. But that Creamer guy is a piece of work isn't he? Thinks the Bible is all inerrant and all divinely inspired? He's so past gone. I could barely stomach his interjections made solely of bald assertions based on zero evidence, classic indoctrination and apologetic reinforcement. As another poster described, he is not far off of YouTube quality posters, full of drivel. I do not know how you keep your cool in the face of such tripe, so I commend you on that, David.
***
The problem for many of us is not an assertion that the absence of evidence for your god is evidence that your god does not exist, but rather how are we to know that your god exists, if there is no evidence..
You claim your god exists. Theists all over the world from thousands of religions through out time have also claimed that their god(s) exist. How am I to know which one of you is correct without evidence? The fact that many religions use similar justifications for their faith in their god(s) only exacerbates the problem.
If you can picture a vast market place, where every religion and every denomination has a stall, and you are all trying to "sell" your particular religion, all of you talking about faith and a priori knowledge, all of you claiming to have the Truth, claiming that if we don't accept your faith, we will be punished in the next life somehow. Many of the stalls fighting and shouting with each other, some who ostensibly worship the same god arguing vehemently over details. Violence and riots breaking out. Apostates from one stall or another ostracized or harmed.
But *none* of you with tangible evidence to back your claims.
If you can picture that, you might understand why an atheist just keeps walking.***
And since theists from many religions argue the same, what then? Which deity do I choose to have faith in so I can "know the evidence."
Furthermore, what they are saying is that if I choose to believe something is true, then I will see evidence that it is true. Yes, I am well aware of how confirmation bias works.
("Believe in him and the understanding will come.")
Your "believe first, than the understanding will come" approach to epistemology works with all religions, spiritual beliefs, pseudo sciences, astrology, crystals and homeopathy, thus it is useless at separating what is real from what is not.
I could pray to God right now and feel him speak to me. It also works if I pray to Allah, Buddha, Krishna, my dead father, or this glass of milk.
The fact that people from various, contradictory religions all say that faith is the key to understanding renders faith useless as a tool for discovering what is real and true. I could just as well use your method to believe in any number of deities or even convince myself that aliens are visiting our planet, occasionally abducting people.
The claim that we can not know God before surrendering our credulity and objectivity is not a positive argument for Christianity.
It's all a Catch 22 - Unless the Holy Spirit abides within you, you can't believe.
The Holy Spirit will not abide in you because you do not believe.
Your example reminds me of something like:
Theist:"I'd point out the proof is all around you, you just choose to deny it. And refuse to search."
A classic cop-out. It doesn't even make sense. If the "proof" is all around me, why must I "search"? If I complete a search but
am unable to perceive this "proof" and you are unable to show me the "proof," then what choice do I have but to deny that the
"proof" exists. If you point to the "proof" and declare that it is "proof," but lack empirical evidence, then it is not "proof", it is an
"opinion." And you know what they say about opinions.
Love it! This points out the flaws in several theistic arguments.
Who the hell is the gay christian, I have never heard anyone so obtuse. So he thinks anything in the bible that is negative was misinterpreted or taken out of context.
should add some Greydon Square to your music selection maybe even have him on your show.
--not greydon square
Same concept as Sam Harris's Diamond in the backyard the size of a refrigerator. Except I like the end with the metal detector.
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The only thing is, some people claim to have actually found the coin. They go around telling other people they've found the coin, too.
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